[ingliz]

But as for Jesus he was nothing but a hippie precursor. A narcissistic paranoid and manipulative sect leader, sure, a proselyte aware that proselytism generates troubles, indeed, but a straight pacifist and humanist without any possible doubt

All of Scripture is inspired by God. This means that the Old Testament is just as inspired as the New Testament and thus an expression of the will of Christ.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

2 Timothy 3:16

[Brian57]

But as for Jesus he was nothing but a hippie precursor. A narcissistic paranoid and manipulative sect leader, sure, a proselyte aware that proselytism generates troubles, indeed, but a straight pacifist and humanist without any possible doubt

All of Scripture is inspired by God. This means that the Old Testament is just as inspired as the New Testament and thus an expression of the will of Christ.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

2 Timothy 3:16

You quoted

"[The state] is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."
Romans 13:4

It is the will of Christ that you not be a wrongdoer and he warns of the government that may punish you if you are. IN CONTRAST to Muhammads will that the muslims "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers, "UNTIL RELIGION IS ONLY FOR ALLAH". The will of Jesus can lead to believers refraining from being a wrongdoer. Muhammads will leads to dead civilians slayed by the believers.

All of Scripture is inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16). This means that the Old Testament is just as inspired as the New Testament and thus an expression of the will of Christ.
Hippie?

"let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one"

Luke 22:36

And two verses later-

38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied.

Two swords among 12 disciples. Pointing to verses like this to support your claim that Christian and Islamic doctrine are equal in terms of motivating violence, only demonstrates the opposite, when Islamic doctrine is much more direct and to the point.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.(*)

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...(*)

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;(*)

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them

[ingliz]

Christians who wage war against unbelievers are acting IN CONTRADICTION of their doctrine.

In a holy war, Christian participation is a positive duty. War in Jewish scriptures, and reference to the many divine commands to engage in holy war, became incorporated within Christian philosophy as these scriptures were incorporated into the Christian canon as the Old Testament.

On the other hand, should you read the Koran, you could easily collect hundreds of completely wicked things in favor of crimes, pedophilia, rape, slavery, imperialism, etc.

God is not known to have made any specific or general prohibitions in warfare in Jewish scripture.

The will of Jesus

Christ’s command to Peter in the garden (John 18:11) is not an interdiction against violence but an interdiction against private initiative to use violence.

"... [The state] are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

Romans 13:4

[Nets]

God is not known to have made any specific or general prohibitions in warfare in Jewish scripture.

Deut 20:19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by wielding an axe against them; for thou mayest eat of them, but thou shalt not cut them down; for is the tree of the field man, that it should be besieged of thee?

[ingliz]

for is the tree of the field man, that it should be besieged of thee?

What can I say, God loves fruit trees.

Not trees per se, though.

"Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down."

Deuteronomy 20:20

Fish?

"thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth."

Deuteronomy 20:16

[fuser]

Good god/s, Abrahmic religions are ridiculously legalistic.

[mikema63]

The man in the sky who's always watching has RULES fuser.

If you don't follow them he has a special place of torture for all eternity where he will put you.

But remember, he loves you!

[Pants-of-dog]

I have a Jewish friend who says that Jews follow the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law.

[ingliz]

On the other hand, should you read the Koran, you could easily collect hundreds of completely wicked things in favor of crimes, pedophilia, rape, slavery, imperialism, etc.

Should you read the Bible (31,173 verses), you could easily collect thousands of completely wicked things in favour of genocide, murder, torture, paedophilia, rape, sexual slavery, slavery, imperialism, etc.

Cruelty and Violence in the Bible

[QatzelOk]

The world would be a simpler place if nobody believed in this magic bullshit.

Mohammed may have been good for the 7th century, but he's not a great 21st century role model.

Mohamed and Islam are NOT about magic. There are no miracles, and the Prophet was a businessman/politician/hustler type. Very real.

Also, he is a perfect role model for the 21st and any other century because he was NOT a man of his time. He was seditious because his conscience had evolved much further than was the norm for his time period. And this kind of advanced mind that is living outside of the normal practices of his time...can provide wisdom that is universal and timeless.

[mikema63]

When he went into space on a flying horse it definitly wssnt magic.

[QatzelOk]

When he went into space on a flying horse it definitly wssnt magic.

Wow. In what multiplex in Missouri did you see "The Quran"?

[Potemkin]

Wow. In what multiplex in Missouri did you see "The Quran"?

Mohammed's Night Journey

[KlassWar]

Should you read the Bible, you could easily collect thousands (31,173 verses) of completely wicked things in favour of genocide, murder, torture, paedophilia, rape, sexual slavery, slavery, imperialism, etc.

Cruelty and Violence in the Bible

The Skeptic's Annotated never gets old.

[Brian57]

Christians who wage war against unbelievers are acting IN CONTRADICTION of their doctrine.

In a holy war, Christian participation is a positive duty. War in Jewish scriptures, and reference to the many divine commands to engage in holy war, became incorporated within Christian philosophy as these scriptures were incorporated into the Christian canon as the Old Testament.

Usually stories from the past regarding a certain time and place, without the commandments for the future

[ingliz]

without the commandments for the future

Are you sure?

“When you begin living in the towns the LORD your God is giving you, you may hear that scoundrels among you are leading their fellow citizens astray by saying, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods you have not known before. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."

Deuteronomy 13:12-18 NLT

[Potemkin]

Give it up, Brian. You're just embarrassing yourself.

[ingliz]

Should you read the Bible (31,173 verses), you could easily collect thousands of completely wicked things

We could collect the 16 children butchered, cooked and eaten by priests, their families, and their servants, in one verse (Numbers 31:29), the 31,984 children sexually abused in another (Numbers 31:35), and we would not have collected all of the completely wicked things in one chapter of one book of the 66 books of the Bible.

ps. If you think I am cherry picking, different book same shit.

"How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies and smashes them on a rock! "

Psalm 137:9 NET

Here's a popular version of the song.

[youtube]9ybv4DOj-N0[/youtube]

Note: they do not sing the last verse.

[Brian57]

On the other hand, should you read the Koran, you could easily collect hundreds of completely wicked things in favor of crimes, pedophilia, rape, slavery, imperialism, etc.

Should you read the Bible (31,173 verses), you could easily collect thousands of completely wicked things in favour of genocide, murder, torture, paedophilia, rape, sexual slavery, slavery, imperialism, etc.

Cruelty and Violence in the Bible

From your link

Genesis

1.Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

2."I will destroy ... both man and beast."
God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

3."Every living substance that I have made will I destroy."
God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

No one denies the violence of god in the old testament. Problem with Islam is that its filled with violent commandments for the believers to follow in the present. Commands to "fight", "kill", "Slay" and "smite the necks" of the unbelievers "until ....religion should only be for Allah". Causes problems today in the present because religion is not yet only for Allah.

Give it up, Brian. You're just embarrassing yourself.

A sure sign you boys have run out of arguments. Bible is filled with violent stories from the past. The Koran is filled with violent commandments for the future. Neither of you have presented anything that shows otherwise.

[Rich]

Here's a popular version of the song.

[youtube]9ybv4DOj-N0[/youtube]

yeah groovy perhaps its could be updated for a modern Baathist and western leftie audience:

By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down
ye-eah we wept, when we remembered Saddam.

I think you'll find it scans.