U.S. anthropologists massively back boycott of Israel - Page 10 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14627682
skinster wrote:If you took the time to read the last link I shared with you, you wouldn't be asking me these questions. I recommend actually reading it before playing interrogator on me.


Reading has nothing to do with it; Posting a link is not a sufficient or convincing argument.

edit: On paper it seems to echo what you just said, outside of:

1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/call#sthash.9ew1q9IT.dpuf


What is "Arab land"?

3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194. - See more at: http://www.bdsmovement.net/call#sthash.9ew1q9IT.dpuf


I can respect that people have suffered but there have been refugees on both sides, so that's about it.
#14627769
What lands does occupied Palestine consist of? Does Tel Aviv sit in occupied Palestine according to the BDS movement?

Likewise when they mention UNGA resolution 194, does it mean then that they recognize refugees have to fulfill the conditions named there? Why do they mention it specifically and why don't they include other resolutions such as UNGA resolution 394? What's their stance on the rest of UNGA resolution 194?

See? Both demands are perfectly open to interpretation.
#14627793
Actually no, the term can have different meanings according to who you ask. Some would say Tel Aviv is in occupied Arab lands others would say it is not.

On the other hand, I do find it quite interesting that a movement which allegedly calls for equality for all and supposedly rejects nationalism would even speak about "Arab lands". I wonder if they believe there are "Jewish lands" or "White lands"?
#14627800
Heinie wrote:You probably think Arab land is near the Sea of Tranquility on the moon but actually Occupied Palestine is Arab land.


What I and you think is irrelevant but you are certain. The notion of "Arab land" is not clearly defined in the mission statement of BDS.

You meant to say "Occupied Palestine" i.e., the State of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza are this Arab land?

On the other hand, I do find it quite interesting that a movement which allegedly calls for equality for all and supposedly rejects nationalism would even speak about "Arab lands".


It certainly is odd that the vagueness of this term is not in question; it's not defined at all yet supposedly we should know it is the armistice lines.
#14627812
wat0n wrote:Actually no, the term can have different meanings according to who you ask. Some would say Tel Aviv is in occupied Arab lands others would say it is not.

On the other hand, I do find it quite interesting that a movement which allegedly calls for equality for all and supposedly rejects nationalism would even speak about "Arab lands". I wonder if they believe there are "Jewish lands" or "White lands"?

The land of Israel is called "Jewish" by the Israelis.
#14627819
So what? The Israelis don't seem to have any real trouble with ethnic nationalism, if we believe BDS advocates. Indeed, the BDS movement does reject ethnic nationalism - and yet they use the term "Arab lands", which has a clear ethnic nationalist bent. Why?

Do they believe there are "White lands" or "Jewish lands" in the same way they talk about "Arab lands"? I somehow doubt so. I would even say that people like Omar Barghouti do not believe that either:


Electronic Intifada wrote:AM: Finally, you have argued numerous times in your published works that ultimately you would like to see in historic Palestine a binational, secular, democratic state.

OB: Not a binational state — I am completely against binationalism. A secular, democratic state, yes, but not binational. There is a big difference.

AM: What exactly is the sentiment on the ground in Palestine on this question?

OB: I must clarify that the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement takes no position on the shape of the political solution. It adopts a rights-based, not solutions-based, approach. I am completely and categorically against binationalism because it assumes that there are two nations with equal moral claims to the land and therefore, we have to accommodate both national rights. I am completely opposed to that, but it would take me too long to explain why, so I will stick to the model I support, which is a secular, democratic state: one person, one vote — regardless of ethnicity, religion, nationality, gender, and so on and so forth … Full equality under the law with the inclusion of the refugees — this must be based on the right of return for Palestinian refugees. In other words, a secular, democratic state that accommodates our inalienable rights as Palestinians with the acquired rights of Israeli Jews as settlers. Why do I see this as the main solution? Morally, it’s obviously the most moral solution because it treats people as equals, the two-state solution is not only impossible now — Israel has made it an absolute pipe dream that cannot happen — it is an immoral solution. At best, it would address some of the rights of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza, while ignoring the majority of Palestinians — those in exile, the refugees, as well as the Palestinian citizens of Israel. There are three segments of the Palestinian people — unless you address the basic requirements of justice for all three segments than we will not have exercised our right to self-determination. The only way that we can exercise our right to self-determination, without imposing unnecessary injustice on our oppressors, is to have a secular, democratic state where nobody is thrown into the sea, nobody is sent back to Poland, and nobody is left in refugee camps. We can coexist ethically with our rights given back to us.

Now on the ground, back to your question, there is no political party in Palestine now or among Palestinians outside either calling for a secular, democratic one-state solution. Despite this, polls in the West Bank and Gaza have consistently in the last few years shown 25-30 percent support for a secular, democratic state. Two polls in 2007 showed two-thirds majority support for a single state solution in all flavors — some of them think of a purely Palestinian state without Israelis and so on — in exile it’s even much higher because the main issue is that refugees in particular, and people fighting for refugee rights like I am, know that you cannot reconcile the right of return for refugees with a two state solution. That is the big white elephant in the room and people are ignoring it — a return for refugees would end Israel’s existence as a Jewish state. The right of return is a basic right that cannot be given away; it’s inalienable. Â A two-state solution was never moral and it’s no longer working — it’s impossible with all the Israeli settlements and so on. We need to move on to the more moral solution that treats everyone as equal under the law, whether they are Jewish-Israeli or Palestinian.


The above might also help to shed some light on what territory does the term itself mean: It seems that the territory at hand includes Tel Aviv.
#14627827
skinster wrote::D @ the zionists playing dumb now as to what BDS requests are. It's very clear in its manifesto and also happens to abide by international law, something Israel has been violating for decades and today.


You think that posting the link again proves anything?

I think that the opinion of the movement's founder should clarify exactly what does the movement want: It wants to impose a single, secular state solution regardless of what the people who live there want (meaning it cannot even be considered as democratic). In practice, this includes an unrestricted return and the destruction and end of political independence of the State of Israel.
#14628305
skinster wrote::D @ the zionists playing dumb now as to what BDS requests are. It's very clear in its manifesto and also happens to abide by international law, something Israel has been violating for decades and today.


Wow, more ad hominem. So what are 'Arab' lands? This is not clarified at all in the 'request' so what you just claimed is incorrect.
#14628332
It wants to impose a single, secular state solution regardless of what the people who live there want


Hah serious?

Yeah, everyone just put down your guns and hugs all around. We will forget religion and ethnic tensions and everyone will live under ones state with open migration to both any arab, muslim, jew who wants to join ....

What fucking planet ...
#14628605
Of course I am.

But, I'm guessing the number is much higher than what Ynet reports.

danholo wrote:So what are 'Arab' lands? This is not clarified at all in the 'request' so what you just claimed is incorrect.


The West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Golan Heights, all those lands that are illegally occupied according to everyone except Israel.

More BDS news:
UNHCR ends G4S contracts in Jordan
#14628671
skinster wrote:The West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza and the Golan Heights, all those lands that are illegally occupied according to everyone except Israel.


So it doesn't include Tel Aviv or Haifa? Because Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and their supporters would disagree. Omar Barghouti, who might have written the BDS movement manifesto himself given that he's its founder, would probably disagree with that as well considering he doesn't believe both peoples have equal national rights.
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