[Maas]

I can't even begin to comprehend how baseless your arguments are. Just because the Jews passed through the region some thousands of years ago, it does not make it rightfully theirs. Just because your religion says its yours, it does not make it so.

come to think of it... about every ethnic group except Africans passed through the region

Israel belongs to the jews

racist!

The palestinians should just be moved to Jordan

ethnic cleansing

Basically... you're a nazi

[danholo]

It's rightfully Israel's because it owns it. No other explanations necessary! I can see people running around, driving cars, living. They own this place. They will defend it, too, as they did so many times in the past. Pro-Palestinians live in the past; they attribute false ownership merely because of a SUPERIMPOSED name, but people's sense of ownership is somehow attributed to some "emotional ties" which have very little legal precedent.

[pugsville]

What about the 4 million palestinians living there? You can push them out , Rule them as a under people, or do the right thing and let them live in peace.

[chaostrivia]

Israel back to the original border, two-mile wide walled no-mans zone between the two, patrolled by peacekeepers, help Palestine rebuild. No violation of Palestine airspace by Israel without permission.

Zero tolerance for aggressions.

Done.

Oh... I get such a strong deja-wu....
This is exactly what we said when we went out of Gaza - 8,600 rockets in 4 years was our "thank you".
This is also exactly what we said when we pulled out of Lebanon to the international border: our only undisputed border: We got soldier kidnapping, mortar shelling, guerilla attacks, rockets, and a war as "thank you".

In both cases, politicians promised "zero tolerance for aggressions and violations" in order to convince the public and gain its support.

So... if we learn something from the recent History, the moment we pull back from the WB, rockets will start falling in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.
Israel is a weak and dependent country, a "zero tolerance" policy that the U.S. and Russia can implement, we simply can't. The world maintains an unfair bodycount here like in no other place on earth.
If they will fire rockets on Tel-Aviv, then what? should we randomly pick a village and erase it off the face of the earth in retaliation?
Terror is always acting from within civilian population, so this make "zero tolerance" a great idea in philosophy, but impractical and actually meaningless idea in reality - it can not be implemented.

[Asad]

This is exactly what we said when we went out of Gaza - 8,600 rockets in 4 years was our "thank you".

You cant move settlers out of one area (gaza), relocate most of them to another occupied area (the west bank), place gaza under a blockade, and expect the Palestinians to come bearing gifts.

[chaostrivia]

Isn't it nice and convenient to twist historical facts for them to co-exist with an ideology?

You cant move settlers out of one area (gaza), relocate most of them to another occupied area (the west bank),

A Lie. (Almost) all of them relocated within the 1967 territories. http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7% ... 7%95%D7%9F
(The article is called: "relocation and rehabilitation of the evacuees of Gush-Katif (gaza settlements) and northern Samaria". The table in section 4 shows for each and every settlement where these families live now. Except for one, none of these are in the WB).

place gaza under a blockade,

Gaza was put under a blockade after the coup of the Hamas, and not immediately after the withdrawal. twisting facts.....

and expect the Palestinians to come bearing gifts.

No, that we didn't expect. We just hoped they will start taking care of themselves, i.e. by building school and infrastructure. Not surprisingly, this didn't happen. Instead, the Palestinians who were never before fundamental muslim extremists were taken hostages by the Hamas and Iran. That is really the last thing the Gazans needed.

[Tailz]

It's rightfully Israel's because it owns it. No other explanations necessary! I can see people running around, driving cars, living. They own this place..

the Palestinians used to own their homes too, just like the Israelis, who now own their homes (and yes, there is a double meaning to that comment).

[Asad]

Isn't it nice and convenient to twist historical facts for them to co-exist with an ideology?

That what the entire history of Israel is based on

A Lie. (Almost) all of them relocated within the 1967 territories. http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7% ... 7%95%D7%9F
(The article is called: "relocation and rehabilitation of the evacuees of Gush-Katif (gaza settlements) and northern Samaria". The table in section 4 shows for each and every settlement where these families live now. Except for one, none of these are in the WB).

You can't give me a hebrew wikipedia article and expect me to believe you.
The settlement building in the WB continued, if not accelerated, after the gaza "withdrawal".

Gaza was put under a blockade after the coup of the Hamas, and not immediately after the withdrawal. twisting facts.....

Gaza was under a blockade even before the settlers left, and long before hamas came to power. twisting facts....

No, that we didn't expect. We just hoped they will start taking care of themselves, i.e. by building school and infrastructure. Not surprisingly, this didn't happen. Instead, the Palestinians who were never before fundamental muslim extremists were taken hostages by the Hamas and Iran. That is really the last thing the Gazans needed.

I agree that the takeover be hamas was not desirable. However, hamas is not only a militant organisation. THey also provide assistance to the population of gaza.
It is important to note, that whilst a population is under a debilitating seige, with no access to building materials (concrete, steal), one cannot expect them to have made too much progress, regardless of who is in power.

[chaostrivia]

That what the entire history of Israel is based on

Then you do not understand Israel.

You can't give me a hebrew wikipedia article and expect me to believe you.

If you think that I will knowingly lie to make a point, then you don't know me. Maybe you would, I woudln't. I am not a soldier of the zionist propaganda army and I don't get paid by anyone. I can think for myself and don't have to report what I say to nobody.
I would really like to believe that I possess a high degree of intellectual honesty.
Besides, I KNEW that most of them were not resettled in the WB, I did not go to a research mission. Unfortunately in a 30 seconds search this is the best I could find.
Your apology for spreading lies has been accepted.

The settlement building in the WB continued, if not accelerated, after the gaza "withdrawal".

True, but not related to anything we discuss at the moment.

Gaza was under a blockade even before the settlers left, and long before hamas came to power. twisting facts....

False. Palestinians could come and work in Israel and there were trade relations. There was a industrial area which support many palestinian families and had to be closed after the coup.

I agree that the takeover be hamas was not desirable. However, hamas is not only a militant organisation. THey also provide assistance to the population of gaza.

a lot of assistance. especially moral assistance.

And a little bit of Ideaological assistance:

"(The enemies of allah) do not know that the Palestinian people has developed its (methods) of death and death-seeking. For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry..... and also the children excel in it".......
Palestinian prime minister, February 2009.

It is important to note, that whilst a population is under a debilitating seige, with no access to building materials (concrete, steal), one cannot expect them to have made too much progress, regardless of who is in power.

They had access to concerete, steel. There weren't any military activities at all, and i'm talking about 1967-1993. The Palestinian people is the most impotent people in the world: I don't think that there is another example of people living in refugee camps for dozens of years without basic infrastructure. The Arab nations worked very hard and successfully to make the Palestinian problem eternal, and have succeeded. It is always easier to blame Israel for everything instead of speaking about the sicknesses of our own society. You didn't relate to the Egyptian 40-year-old "shoot to kill" blockade on Gaza I mentioned, not too convenient to say something about it? easier to blame Israel, right? see "intellectual honesty" above.