[anasawad]

And the Tribes in Lebanon are much more than Lebanon, and about 50 times bigger than Israel and have same techs with more weapons.
If Israel did as you say, Lebanon is destroyed, it'll be a massacre, and you in America will start seeing people usually only in local Iranian TV, going up, and declaring holy war against Israel, and by holy war, i mean the war only stops when the other side is completly wiped out, and considering the fact that everyone capable of holding arms will go to war, and the fact that we're present in large number in practically all the Khorasan greater region, including Pakistan with large enough population to have our main commands there in semi independent states north of the country, so not only Israel would be facing an army bigger than its own population, but also an army with nukes. Can you estimate how many nukes a small country like Israel needs before its gone ?

There is one little difference between us and the rest of the Islamic world, the others want to Jerusalem back, we don't give a fuck about it, if a massacre was commited against us, we're going to burn down everything in the area.


And BTW, most weapons reach Lebanon through tunnels, big tunnels not like the Palestinian ones, Israel was trying to find the entrance to those tunnels in Baalbak in 2006 actually, thats why they got into the hospital, they thought the shelter under the hospital has access.

[Pisa]

Its a scenario and a general question not a reality, and if the Iranians wanted to kill the Jews, we'll start with the ones we already have in Iran since Iran has one of the largest Jewish populations in the world.

No, you wouldn't start with those you already have in Iran. They're not important, they don't have any power or influence, you can afford yourselves to ignore them for now.

There are less than 9000 jews left in Iran.

Iranians don't want to kill jews, their fanatical leaders do.

My question is based on the principles introduced by Frollein.
- I do hope everyone can get the name right, its Israel not Jews.
- Israel does kill people when they want to, we see that in Gaza when the IDF ordered to shoot to kill, and i personally seen that in Lebanon when Israel bombs civilians area's with not a singal sign of military presence, meaning its aimed to kill not to do any military purpose, and they get away with it unpunished because they have American veto on their side.
-My question is quite logical, the question addresses a scenario where its not Israel the winner but Israel is the losing side, and i said whether its Arab armies, or Persian armies or generally the other side of the conflict whom ever it may be, will the same justification be applied or is it only a special case when Israel is doing it.

IDF kill people when they have to, not when they want to. You can't possibly believe that an army of thugs and bullies, allowed to do whatever they want to whomever they choose, would be able to guaranty the security of the country the way IDF do.

Of course Israel wouldn't bomb the lebanese military. However, the IDF would bomb Hezbollah terrorists, who are not wearing uniforms, but are not civilians.

Your question is not logical because it contains both a rhetorical question and an unproved premise. It leads to a logical fallacy of the type "two wrongs make a right", forcing a "no" answer which would mean acquiescence of the unproved premise. It's a leading question.

[anasawad]

When you put a rhetoric, and someone ask you about that rhetoric, then it is logical question.
The premise is valid, since Israel is not the strongest in the world, by far, and it can be at a certain occasion the losing side.
The question addresses a set of principles made by Frollein, the question thus is not about an event in reality but about a principle introduced by a person, since this principle is a rhetoric, then the question, by default would be simillar.

Let me repeat what the question was.
Under these principles:

1. Life is unfair.
2. People are cruel and uncaring.
3. Those who ruthlessly exploit their advantage (such as guns over scissors) win.
4. Bitching about facts of life on the internet won't change a thing.

Then came this statement :

The Israelis won, the Palestinians lost.

If the Israelis lost, will the former apply also to them, or will it not ? according to the same person who introduced those principles, Frollein.
This is a logical question and a very simple one.

There are less than 9000 jews left in Iran.

Iran has 2 sides, as i said before, the clerics, and the proggressive left, they both fought the shah, after the revolution, the clerics were stronger, the Jews fearing oppression, some ran away, some stayed and hide at first until there came a balance of powers.
The Jews in Iran, atleast most of them who stayed, claimed to be Christians and hide their actual religions.
Thats why in provinces like Erdebiel, Tabriz, Asfahan, Shehrekord, where Christians mainly reside, if you got into the people you'll see there are many Jews between them.
The number of Christians estimated between 100-300 thousand, i recall last local static said something around 250 or so.
It is considered that around %20-30 of people who are Christians on record are actually Jews, thats why most politicians address each group alone except Christians and Jews, they combine them because there is no clear info on who is Christians and who is Jewish among the Christians communities.
Thus while least estimates around 8000 recorded, more realistic estimates are about 50-100 thousand.
Which makes Iran within the top Jewish populations in the world.

IDF kill people when they have to, not when they want to.

I don't see how they have to bomb civillians, unless they simply want to prolong the war and gain more money
as said earlier.

You can't possibly believe that an army of thugs and bullies, allowed to do whatever they want to whomever they choose, would be able to guaranty the security of the country the way IDF do.

Yes, Syria for over 40 years, and Saudi Arabia for over 80 years.
The problem is that those in one hand end up collapsing in total chaos, and on the other hand, the Arab ones are focused inside so the country can survive even after a civil war, with Israel its focused to outside, meaning it bring enemies and hatred, and will scar and damage the people of the country for much longer.

Of course Israel wouldn't bomb the lebanese military. However, the IDF would bomb Hezbollah terrorists, who are not wearing uniforms, but are not civilians.

I was referring to Hezbollah presence by military presence, and again, you can easily check the war on wikipedia and see that many of the places bombed were completely civilians areas, even in short border conflicts, Israel bombs southern villages near the borders, although Hezbollah is not allowed to get positions that close to the borders and thus the area's entirely civil.

[Rich]

Calling you a neo-Nazi is just calling a spade a spade based on your politics.

Hitler loved Muslims and hated Jews. Hitler never criticised the Ottoman genciders. The SS even had a Muslim regiment. I don't quite follow how Frollein fits the Neo Nazi mold. Some believe that the genocide of the Jews was the idea of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Whether that's true or not Hitler certainly got the idea from the Muslims.

Love Muslims, hate Jews, now who does that remind you of?

[Zamuel]

I was referring to Hezbollah presence by military presence, and again, you can easily check the war on wikipedia and see that many of the places bombed were completely civilians areas, even in short border conflicts, Israel bombs southern villages near the borders, although Hezbollah is not allowed to get positions that close to the borders and thus the area's entirely civil.

Sure it is ... Wink-Wink ... and HOW MANY of those Israeli Jets has the Hezbollah Air Force shot down ? How many has the Lebanese Air Force shot down. There's a word for this kind of Air Defense ... "Sitting Ducks."

Count your blessings and pray for peace.

Zam

[anasawad]

There wasn't any air defenc\se before, now the tribes do have an air defense, just shoot a single bomb against us and you'll be hearing about Israeli aircrafts downed by the day.
The question is do you want that to be with Hezbollah ?

You know it really isn't good to mix up your enemies, and by least not under estimate them.

Hezbollah has access

^In war. We have those not Hezbollah yet.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Israeli jets have a defence system against iglas and stingers
to have a chance of shooting down a modern equipped jet you need something like s300

[anasawad]

s300 was easily smuggled into Iran in 2010 and 2011, wanna guess by who ?:P
BTW, since you're in Israel, you would know that Beqa' has a reputation for drug lords and gun traffickers, right ?
So by least estimate we have some good stuff on our back.

[Zionist Nationalist]

You have no ability to shot down jets and s300 was not smuggled to Iran only the technology which Iran tried to copy but failed
beqa valley dont have more than what syrian rebels have and the syrian rebels have no chance of shooting down russian jets and Israeli pilots are better than the Russian pilots

[anasawad]

You missed the point, but anyways.
There is most probably going to be anther war soon, the Israelis will start getting to know the tribes in battle field then.

[Zamuel]

You have no ability to shot down jets and s300 was not smuggled to Iran only the technology which Iran tried to copy but failed beqa valley dont have more than what syrian rebels have and the syrian rebels have no chance of shooting down russian jets and Israeli pilots are better than the Russian pilots

The Russian pilots are good ... but the planes they fly in the Arabian theatre are mostly 3 generations out of date (or more) Israel is state of the art on equipment. Pretty much any GAM systems are vulnerable to a coordinated HARM attack ... Which means, without Air Superiority Aircraft you have an Air Defense until around noon ... after that it has ceased to exist.

Someone is badly misleading our Lebanese friend ...

Zam

[danholo]

anasawad,

You make it sounds so simple: Send in one diplomat, and peace will be achieved.

But I definitely believe your stories about Lebanon's paramilitaries being well-equipped and trained. Not only that, they have veterans which is always a trump card in any battle and they're also highly motivated. I've thought this for a while and while Israel might even have an upper hand on some levels with military power, I don't think it underestimates Hezbollah's capabilities. 2006 showed that they were serious and they are undefeatable on their home turf - unless you want to carpet bomb the entire place.

Honestly I don't see why any future war would need to happen. I guess there is bad blood but there are no immediate issues that would spark one, unless either side does something stupid...

May peace be achieved in our time.

[Zionist Nationalist]

I really hope not but the IDF have devastating plans against Lebanon lets say Lebanon will not be the same again after another war with Israel

but as long as Hezbollah dont touch Israel there will be no problems

[danholo]

Israel and Lebanon could benefit greatly from mutual cooperation. There are enough progressive elements in both societies that have much in common and could see eye to eye on many issues.

[anasawad]

Israeli officials are threatning Lebanon all the time, and Hezbollah officials are trying day and night to get full tribal support currently, both sides are preparing for a war.
For the peace, it is actually that simple, thats how tribal politics works, always was.
Hezbollah cant do much without access, so if we went for peace, Nassrallah cant do anything any more, not even fight in Syria.


@Zam.
No, i write based on what i see with my own eyes, i lived for long time in Baalbak, and still there routinely, and everyone in Baalbak specially can easily see how weapons and missiles enter the country.
In 2013 i recall, there was a spy in meslemani house, he was spying on us for Israel, that type of guys is where the Israeli intelligence comes from, and thats why you already know there is a large number of missiles and weapons inside of Lebanon.

Who's being misleaded is anyone who thinks that you can touch one side of a tribe and leave the rest, and the people who think they never lose although it is simply how the world works, everyone with no exception loses at a certain point, and most of all, the people who keeps underestimating their enemies.
Those who are being misleaded, and it never ends well for those people.

For example, everyone says the same tribes that are in Lebanon, are either mixed or originate from the Persian world, and extentions of tribes already there, when westerners specially talk about Iran war, they simply say they can easily destroy everything, and nothing bad will happen, yet they forget the very most important fact about it.
Persia for 4000 years was based on tribes, do they know how many countries those tribes are in right now ? no.
Their numbers ? no, and best of all, you get some US congressman and celebrities and trump spokesmen ofcourse saying why not use nukes against Iran.
In reality Iran doesn't have nukes and don't need too, but does anyone consider that the tribes that represent half the Iranian population also represent nearly half of Pakistan population with its command in Pakistan in an independent state, and that Pakistan is a nuclear power and have the ability to respond ?
No, thats how its like to be misleaded.

[danholo]

Israeli officials are threatning Lebanon all the time, and Hezbollah officials are trying day and night to get full tribal support currently, both sides are preparing for a war.

When was the last time per 'all the time'?

Hezbollah cant do much without access, so if we went for peace, Nassrallah cant do anything any more, not even fight in Syria.

If you are so certain, you could be a good adviser to Israeli officials.

[Pisa]

Zionists are portrayed as monsters not Jews, when Palestine day marches comes along, Jewish rabbis walk side by side with everyone specially in Jordan.

Do yourself a favor - don't call those medieval excuses for human beings "jewish rabbis". They're just a fanatical sect. Your infatuation with them will only reflect bad on you.

Jews are portrayed as monsters in the muslim world, including diaspora communities.

A classic of the genre:

If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli.

(New Yorker, Oct. 14, 2002)

Same classic:

If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.

(Daily Star, Oct. 23, 2002)

Guess who?

There are so many instances of vilification of jews in the muslim world. Let's start with the well known hadith about how the end of the world will not come until muslims kill all jews. The in-between would need a separate topic, so let's skip directly to the more recent attack of a synagogue in Paris during the 2014 war in Gaza. Those jews were not israelis, yet a muslim mob held them responsible for Israel's actions and attacked them.

It's all about jews, not israelis, not zionists. Not even about "palestinian land", since Jordan, whose hashemite rulers migrated from the Arabian Peninsula in the '20s and invaded more than 60% of Palestine, is not seen as occupier and is not required to make painful territorial concessions for their palestinian brethren*.

The truth is that many people do care about what goes on in Gaza, see here in photos what was happening internationally while Israel was raining bombs into Gaza two summers ago, and yes, people were blaming Israel, not Hamas, because Israel is the occupying force and Hamas is a resistance organization to that. Hamas was also spawned by Israel, lest ye forget.

Resistance to what, exactly? You do know that Hamas' goal is the eradication of the state of Israel - or do you? Have you ever read their charter? Have you ever read, or heard, their statements? Resistance to what, Skinster?

On one hand, you deny that the BDS - an organization you support - goal is Israel's destruction. On the other hand, you claim that an organization who openly declares its goal to be the destruction of Israel is just "resistance". Oh, please...

The article in WSJ is just crap. It begins with a conclusion that is not supported by the rest of the article, despite the heroic efforts of the journalist.

Allow me to quote you for my grand finale:

*I'm still waiting for an answer from Skinster about this issue. I'll probably get - at most - one of those creepy toothy smileys.

[Zamuel]

but does anyone consider that the tribes that represent half the Iranian population also represent nearly half of Pakistan population with its command in Pakistan in an independent state, and that Pakistan is a nuclear power and have the ability to respond ?
No, thats how its like to be misleaded.

Oh yeah ... That was given LOTS of consideration way back when. Pakistan is ALLOWED a very limited Nuclear capability as a deterrent to India. VERY SMALL and closely watched. Any idea that they might launch to support an attack on Israel is pure idiocy ... Should such insanity occur, Pakistan would cease to exist as anything more than a glowing hole in the ground ... And the Indians would be smiling for the next few months.

If you are seeing a lot of excitement and activity ? It's most likely aimed at recruiting (probably for both sides) and anyone foolish enough to get involved (no matter what they were told) will find themselves used as cannon fodder in Syria.

Zam

[anasawad]

Oh yeah ... That was given LOTS of consideration way back when. Pakistan is ALLOWED a very limited Nuclear capability as a deterrent to India. VERY SMALL and closely watched. Any idea that they might launch to support an attack on Israel is pure idiocy ... Should such insanity occur, Pakistan would cease to exist as anything more than a glowing hole in the ground ... And the Indians would be smiling for the next few months.

Thats also not the idea i was reaching for, what i meant is simply real analyst know that a war with Iran will ultimatly trigger a world war because it will include many countries in the region due to tribal connections, and many more due to outter relations.
For Israel, if we nuked it we would be nuking our selves, literally, how ever if the scenario you mentioned happened where Israel would wipe out Lebanon or parts of it, one massacre would trigger a series of massacres, and everyone would get involved and since all sides have nuclear powers in them, so world war.
Same would happen if the massacre wih regular bombs or nukes happened in Iran.

If you are seeing a lot of excitement and activity ? It's most likely aimed at recruiting (probably for both sides) and anyone foolish enough to get involved (no matter what they were told) will find themselves used as cannon fodder in Syria.

There isn't, Hezbollah is trying to get full tribal support since 2006. Now with the events in Syria, after Arsal, tribes began full scale border defense all accross the beqa' but still refused to get into Syria.
For Israel matter, the tribes support Hezbollah with money and weapons but don't fight directly, and even Israel although it threatens and challenges us, we don't shoot them nor do they shoot any of us.
In 2006 they dropped into our area's, they were surrounded, but neither side actually opened fire.
Lately a number of Israeli officials are threatening and saying they want to "send Lebanon back to stone age".
That is making lots of people angry, so if you go to Baalbak now or the Baalbak-Hermel line, you would easily see that the tribes are in one hand fully armed all the time and on the other hand all main structures are being improved to be first protective against bombs and in the other to include under ground shelters.
If Israel keeps this pressure, soon the tribes would agree to fight fully along side Hezbollah, if that happened, the next war would be much broader and destructive for both sides, and not only Lebanese would be fighting in Hezbollah lines.

@Pisa.
Yes, sure, Rabbis for peace are a disgrace, and all Muslims are anti-semitic, and want to kill all the Jews.
Any more propoganda you want to publish or thats just it ?

When was the last time per 'all the time'?

Still going since mid last year, and there is on routinely bases Israeli aircrafts entering Lebanese airspace all the time, last one i believe was yesterday or before that.

If you are so certain, you could be a good adviser to Israeli officials.

This is the jafari court in Baalbek, all tribal disputes are solved here, all issues are delt with here, and anyone who wants to meet with tribal leaders comes here.
If Israel want peace, they send people to negotiate here, if successful, support for Hezbollah is stopped, and no more access is granted, Hezbollah collapses on it self within very short time.
Very simple.

Old article but gives a good hint.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 29203.html

[anasawad]

BTW, Pisa, the part about the final war, its not Jews verses Muslims, its said all followers of god against all followers of the anti-christ, there wont be anything called Muslim,Jew, or Christian or anything in that prophecy.
Only believers and followers of god, against followers of the anti-christ who would believe he is god.
The final battle between the christ and the anti-christ would be in Jerusalem how ever the final war would be all over the world.
The only parts where Jews were mentioned were 2 main parts.
The anti-christ would be born into our world from a Jewish parents in Jerusalem, and that 70 thousand of the Jews of Asfahan would follow hem.

EDIT: Just so you don't go to say that this justifies racism against Jews.
It also says many Muslims would fall for hem and believe in hem and follow and fight for hem.
And that only a true believer of god would see his deception, including Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc.