[Tailz]

And you say I'm a funny fellow.

I was using a metaphor, I don't think any Israeli diplomat would wish to sit down at the same table as a Hamas diplomat, let alone sign an agreement with one - doing so would damage their political career with recriminations from right wing zionists that they deal with terrorists. But you can't escape the fact that Hamas offered a ceasefire on the principle of: Open the border crossings and the rocket fire will cease.

Thus Israel stuffed around with opening and closing the border crossings, thus the rockets kept flying.

That was after the started shooting rockets.

The block-aid of Gaza has been going on for longer than that. Israel's strangle hold only became tighter after Hamas won the election. In actual terms of control, Israel has been in change of Gaza's borders since it captured the territory! Just because there are no troops inside the area, does not mean Israel does not control it when Israel controls the land, air, and sea borders of Gaza.

Think of Gaza like a cardboard box, with Israel being the guy in charge of opening or closing the box to put things into it, or to take things out of it. Thus the guy controls the box, even though he is not inside the box.

Anyway, you seem to say "Israel should let the Palestinians trade whatever they want with whoever they wont". Hell no, 10 dead soldiers is bad enough, and I give up the chace to rise this number, specially considering the fact that I will be fighting the next war.

Why should the Palestinians be restricted in who they can or can not trade with, when Israel is not? Thats a double standard - and you wonder why they are fighting you?

In difference to you, I don't like anyone getting killed in this conflict, Palestinian or Israeli. But I am not so naive as to get swept along in the rhetoric! I look deeper to see why people are fighting, why people are getting killed, etc. So if you get killed in the next war, i'll be sad, even for you. But I'll be damn annoyed about the fools errand your being sent on in the first place.

You can weep for the 10, I'll weep for the 1010+ dead.

Which means they already fight to death.
In that case I would rather give them a reason not to fight at all

And how are you going to do that? By bombing them? By restricting their trade? By starving them?

What reason, other than the already violent or collective punishment reasons will you employ in order to make them not want to fight? What carrot will you dangle before them that will make them want to live for peace, rather than die for freedom?

I am glad that I amuse you.

Oh you most certainly do, but I am resisting the urge to call you Seamen Stains.

[SouthBeirut]

Are you really kidding me? You seem to forget that a Death Penalty actually works.

No it doesn't. I support the Death Penalty. But it doesn't really "work". You only get to calm the victim's family, and save some dollars per year. Nothing drastically changed to better for it to "work".

Code: Select allThey've got it in some US states,

Yeah, that's why the US is the safest place on earth...

You know that guy from Hizbollah who killed that 4-year old girl in front of her parents and got traded along with other Hizbollah soldiers for 2 dead bodies of IDF soldiers?

1) He was not a Hezbollah combatant in 1979. There wasn't even an organization named Hezbollah back then.
2) He didn't travel all the way to Naharya with his crew to kill a 4-year old girl in front of her parents.

He got imprisoned under the Israeli legal system and got life in prison when they caught him.

Yeah, stupid Israelis, now he's back in Lebanon shooting some RPG rounds

He bashed a 4-year old girls head in a rock in front of her parents. Are you kidding me?

That's not true.

America hanged Saddam Hussein.

The only correct thing they did in the whole war was that.

America wants to hang Osama Bin Laden.

If they really wanted to do that, they would have captured him in the first year of the war. He will only get hanged when he no more serves the US government.

Why didn't that guy get hanged?

Maybe because then we'll have to hang each pilot that bombed Gaza and killed a child during it ? War Crimes in the 2006 Lebanon War like the killing of an entire family by Israeli soldiers because the family's last name was Nasrallah, those soldiers deserve a hanging.

[Douglas]

He didn't travel all the way to Naharya with his crew to kill a 4-year old girl in front of her parents.

Well that makes it alright then, murdering 4 year old girl is perfectly fine as long as that wasn't the intention you had at the start of the day. I mean who could rightly complain about smashing a toddlers head in if that wasn't his original intention? We all know as long as he didn't plan it in advance then it's perfectly acceptable to murder a child.

[SouthBeirut]

Well that makes it alright then, murdering 4 year old girl is perfectly fine as long as that wasn't the intention you had at the start of the day. I mean who could rightly complain about smashing a toddlers head in if that wasn't his original intention? We all know as long as he didn't plan it in advance then it's perfectly acceptable to murder a child.

1) Try to answer all points.
2) Don't try to play the ignorant. You know damn well, that nothing would justify the murder of any other human being unless it's self-defence.
3) The point in my whole sentence is that you focus so much on the girl's death that it's the only thing that you remember when the man's name is said. I doubt that everyone in Israel knows that he also killed a police officer and that that both his pistol and his Ak47 jammed when he tried to fire another old man. The Israeli government loves propaganda, and the death of a young female child would have a very stunning impact on the people.
3) He didn't kill the girl. The proofs were all made up.

[Douglas]

I doubt that everyone in Israel knows that he also killed a police officer and that that both his pistol and his Ak47 jammed when he tried to fire another old man.

You should be his lawyer.

He didn't kill the girl. The proofs were all made up.

Sure she smashed her own head against the rocks.

The Israeli government loves propaganda, and the death of a young female child would have a very stunning impact on the people.

So we should forget that he's a child murderer?

[SouthBeirut]

You should be his lawyer.

I like my current job. Thank you.

Sure she smashed her own head against the rocks.

How do you know her head was smashed against rocks ? Was any evidence of this incident ever revealed in public ? Like pictures of the aftermath ? Because I can't seem to find any.

So we should forget that he's a child murderer?

He didn't kill the child.

[MVictorP]

Well that makes it alright then, murdering 4 year old girl is perfectly fine as long as that wasn't the intention you had at the start of the day.

You just destroyed Israel's apologistic Modus Operandi. They always claim that the huge number of victims among civilians after a "righteous purge" of theirs are but collateral damage.

"Oops!" (snickers)

[Douglas]

No because a lack of planning does not mean a lack of intent at the time the action takes place. I can wake up this morning and not plan to kill a 4 year old but then deliberately smash her head open later this afternoon, or I could accidentally kill her while in the process of doing something else. Both aren't very nice, one is much worse than the other.

How do you know her head was smashed against rocks ?

Her brain matter was all over his rifle butt. He went to trial, there was evidence, a pathologist and he was found guilty.

He didn't kill the child.

Got evidence otherwise?

If you're now going to try and reverse the question then I'm going to point you to the evidence presented at the trial.

[SouthBeirut]

Her brain matter was all over his rifle butt. He went to trial, there was evidence, a pathologist and he was found guilty.

This can all be made up. I don't believe Israeli Justice, especially against an Arab.

Got evidence otherwise?
If you're now going to try and reverse the question then I'm going to point you to the evidence presented at the trial.

I don't need to. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm just stating what happened. He didn't kill the girl.

[Douglas]

I don't need to. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm just stating what happened. He didn't kill the girl.

No because you don't know what happened, you have no evidence otherwise.

You're not trying to convince anyone of anything because you can't. You have nothing to back up your hollow and empty statement.

You might as well claim the earth is flat for as much evidence as you can give.

No wonder Arab justice sucks when this is the level of evidence and reasoning you lot can muster.

[seamen]

Thus Israel stuffed around with opening and closing the border crossings, thus the rockets kept flying

Ill fix this for you

Israel opened the borders (not completly but it was hell better than what they would get now), rockets kept flying thus Israel stuffed around with opening and closing the border crossings

Why should the Palestinians be restricted in who they can or can not trade with, when Israel is not?

Because, thier trading threaten Israeli lives and thus Israel should not allow them to do so

In difference to you, I don't like anyone getting killed in this conflict, Palestinian or Israeli. But I am not so naive as to get swept along in the rhetoric! I look deeper to see why people are fighting, why people are getting killed, etc. So if you get killed in the next war, i'll be sad, even for you. But I'll be damn annoyed about the fools errand your being sent on in the first place

What reason, other than the already violent or collective punishment reasons will you employ in order to make them not want to fight? What carrot will you dangle before them that will make them want to live for peace, rather than die for freedom?

Well I am going to end this "Israel stole Palestinian land and should give it back immediatly" and "Palestinians only fight because Israel stole their land" bullshit

The palestinians had most of Israel back in 1948, they could have peace and spare all this 60 year conflict. But what could you expect them to do? One day (!) after the UN declare Jews right to establish a country in Israel the Palestinians started riots and killing of Jews.
One day (!) after Israel declare independence ( they had right to do so), the Palestinians declared war.
Now, they had all the land that they want now from 1948 to 1967, but never even tried to establish a country. Instead they tried to "wipe those Jews", making anything for themselves was not important, what was important was to first "kill the Jews, we will worry about making a country later". They never tried. So I'm sorry (well I'm not, it's just a matter of speech) they lost the wars they started themselves but its not Israel's fault they wanted war.
The Palestinians never prooved they want peace, they only prooved they want the total destructure of Israel. Your " give them some land and open the borderes and you will get peacfull people" argument is unbased and could only come from a naive person or a person that dont know the history of Israel. Either one

Oh you most certainly do, but I am resisting the urge to call you Seamen Stains

You know? I still dont get the joke, I was sitting with a dictionary the other day for an hour and still couldnt get it. Can you explain it to me?

[SouthBeirut]

Because, thier trading threaten Israeli lives and thus Israel should not allow them to do so

It only threatens Israeli lives when Israel is doing something wrong. If Israel lifts up its Embargo, rockets will cease immediately.

[Lin Zexu]

Seamen,

The British not only colonized half of the world for 3 centuries but even in the end of their days as an empire they made up a plan together with Zionists to colonise JUST ONE MORE SPOT in the world a spot which is now theirs. A spot which the Zionists have been dreaming off ever since the Romans kicked them out. A spot we call Palestine since... history books tell us(and not the Bible). Even the Romans called it Palestine and and not Israel! and the Western civilization is nothing more than an offshoot of the bastards the Romans created when they visited the conquered Germanic tribes in France, Brittania and Germania;).

Anyhow back to the topic, the British sent ships after ships of Jews to Palestine as you know and they armed the Jews and were plotting every single step of it. They knew that the migration of so many Jews to Palestine would provoke violence or protests at least. And when the Arabs would get violent they would use it as a motive for the British to give the green-light to the armed Jews to fight and drive away the Arabs and start the process of 'DE-ARABIZATION' and proclaimation of Israel.

And not only do you know it but the whole world knows it. And funny thing is I've seen many Jews defend themselves 'the bible says its our country'. Im like dude wtf? since when do you Jews abide by the BIBLE? It's the Christians that have been prosecuting and massacring your people for over 2 Millenium. And everytime it's us Muslims who would take you guys in and help you. Remember your exodus out of the Iberian peninsula. And remember who it was that took you in. And remember the number of Jews that today live in Morocco or Turkey.

I'll quote just this:

Mahatma Gandhi on ! Palestine written in 1938

The Jews In Palestine


By Mahatma Gandhi


Published in the Harijan
26-11-1938.

Several letters have been received by me, asking me to declare my views
about the Arab-Jew question in Palestine and the persecution of the Jews in
Germany. It is not without hesitation that I venture to offer my views on
this very difficult question.

My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South
Africa. Some of them became lifelong companions. Through these friends I
came to learn much of their age long persecution. They have been the
untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by
Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close.

Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification of
the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships,
therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for
the Jews. But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice.

The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me.
The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews
have hankered after return to Palestine.


Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country
their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?
Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their
national home. The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of
the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French.

If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being
forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled?
Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the
national home affords a colorable justification for the German expulsion of
the Jews. But the German persecution of the Jews seems to have no parallel
in history. The tyrants of old never went so mad as Hitler seems to have
gone. And he is doing it with religious zeal. For, he is propounding a new
religion of exclusive and militant nationalism in the name of which any
inhumanity becomes an act of humanity to be rewarded here and hereafter.

The crime of an obviously mad but intrepid youth is being visited upon his
wholerace with unbelievable ferocity. If there ever could be a justifiable
war in the name of and for humanity, a war against Germany to prevent the
wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completely justified. But I do
not believe in any war. A discussion of the pros and cons of such a war is,
therefore, outside my horizon or province.

But if there can be no war against Germany, even for such a crime as is
being committed against the Jews, surely there can be no alliance with
Germany. How can there be alliance between a nation, which claims to stand
for justice and democracy and one, which is the declared enemy of both? Or
is England drifting towards armed dictatorship and all it means?

Germany is showing to the world how efficiently violence can be worked when
it is not hampered by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as humanitarianism.It is also showing how hideous, terrible and terrifying it looks in its nakedness.Can the Jews resist this organized and shameless persecution? Is there a way to preserve their self-respect, and not to feel helpless, neglected and forlorn? I submit there is. No person who has faith in a living God need feel helpless or forlorn. Jehovah of the Jews is a God more personal than the God of the Christians, the Mussalmans or the Hindus, though as a matter of fact, in essence, He is common to all and one without a second and beyond description. But as the Jews attribute personality to God and believe that He rules every action of theirs, they ought not to feel helpless.

If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I
would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German might, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment. And for doing this I
should not wait for! the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance, but
would have confidence that in the end the rest were bound to follow my
example.... ...

And now a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they are going
about it in the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a
geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the
Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under
the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the
aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the
goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart.

The same God rules the Arab heart who rules the Jewish heart... They will
find the world opinion in their favor in their religious aspiration. There are
hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs, if they will only discard the
help of the British bayonet. As it is, they are co-sharers with the
British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not
defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence
in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment
upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong,
nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of
overwhelming odds.

Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing
the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every
country is their home, including Palestine, not by aggression but by loving
service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution
to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done
to enrich the world's literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine,
agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as the
outcast of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the
attention and respect of the world by being the chosen creation of God,
instead of sinking to the brute who is forsaken by God. They can add to
their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action.

http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-gandhi170903.htm

What else can I say, Hamas will prevail in the end. Hamas and Hezbollah know that ONCE they start giving in there is no way back.
If Hamas gives in to the demand of the West and 'recognize' Israel as a state it means they give up THEIR lands and RECOGNIZE a new LANDOWNER.
Now why would you give up half of your country away to invaders who came with a white flag and in the end are occupying and imprisoning your entire people? Do Israelis know what humane behaviour means? Respect? Honour? Justice? It has shown throughout it's history that it doesnt.
Israel defies the very organisation that established it; the UN.
The PLO is corrupt and it's very ideology and fundamentals of its existance are corrupted by their recognition of Israel.
There cannot be a Palestinian state next to that of a Jewish one. That is a dream which the West wants the Palestinians to believe so that they lower their guns and start living in a new holocaust ironically instigated by the very Jewish people haha.

Israel's existance depends on the USA is declining and has been declining as a world power in the last years. Within 20 to 30 years the words of the USA in the security council will mean nothing just as their veto right will be mocked. Russia, India and China will be playing the cards then and then Israel has to scratch their balls because they will have to countdown their final days.

[Douglas]

Even the Romans called it Palestine and and not Israel!

Sure about that? Wasn't called Judea?

Even the Romans called it Palestine and and not Israel! and the Western civilization is nothing more than an offshoot of the bastards the Romans created when they visited the conquered Germanic tribes in France, Brittania and Germania;).

Damn them and their roads and science, never needed them anyway.

Anyhow back to the topic, the British sent ships after ships of Jews to Palestine as you know and they armed the Jews and were plotting every single step of it.

Cos we liked having our own soldiers killed?

And funny thing is I've seen many Jews defend themselves 'the bible says its our country'. Im like dude wtf? since when do you Jews abide by the BIBLE?

Well actually it's the Torah/Talmud. You're right it doesn't matter, being a democracy and not full of the motherless shits of hamas and hezbollah makes it rightfully their country.

And everytime it's us Muslims who would take you guys in and help you.

By massacring? By joining the largest SS division? By waging a war on them for the last half century? Help?

Do Israelis know what humane behaviour means? Respect? Honour? Justice?

Sure it isn't using human shield to defend the unguided rockets you send towards civilian areas.

There cannot be a Palestinian state next to that of a Jewish one.

Could be salted earth though.

[Aekos]

There cannot be a Palestinian state next to that of a Jewish one.

Bad logic. Do you want the Palestinians to keep suffering?

[Lin Zexu]

Douglas,

By massacring? By joining the largest SS division? By waging a war on them for the last half century? Help?

It is of my opinion that since the conquest of the Muslims of every land from Iberian peninsula to Indonesia the Jews have lived practically in peace and prosperity aslong they paid the jizya Islamic tax for non-Muslims. Spain was home to numerous Shepardi jews and many Jews in the rest of the Islamic world were safe and protected from annihilation. Even Bukhara a city in Uzbekistan was home to many Jews just a century ago. During the middle-ages, renaissance the Jews were persecuted, discrminated to participate actively in the society in ANY European nation. Jews were prohibited to join the army for example and many more professional jobs were *jew-free*. But you Jews tend to scrap that from your memory and paint Muslims as your 'persecutors'. Your over exaggerating the 'SS' story of Muslims joining the National-Socialist Germans. Many Tatars, Crimeans, Chechens, Ingusetians, Dagestani's etc. etc. joined the Nazi's just to regain freedom from the yoke of the Russians and in particular the Communists who closed down mosques, prohibited praying and discouraged everything that had to do with religion and in the case of the Muslims 'Islam'. The reason of these Muslims to join the Nazi's was to regain freedom and not to kill Jews and you know this but you manipulate information just as regular Zionists do Douglas I pitty you. Himmler the head of the SS was interested in the Muslims fighting the Communists because he saw that the Muslims vigour and resentment of the oppressors could be used as a good weapon in a German army which was in need of manpower.

The persecution of Jews was done by Germans generally and officially the Muslim divisions never persecuted Jews maybe individual cases which I am not aware of but in general the Muslims of Eastern-Europe and Caucasus never harmed Jews in particular or intentionally.

Now stop acting as a Zionist Douglas and dont stereotype or manipulate as you please.

[Lin Zexu]

Bad logic. Do you want the Palestinians to keep suffering?

Aekos one question, would you accept theft, occupation, discrmination and the annihilation of your people's existance in the future by a people?

Did the Serbs accept the occupation of the Ottomans? Didn't the Serbs fight till the bitter end? Wasn't it the pride and faith of the Serbs that made them a strong rebellious independent people against the Ottomans? Hasn't your dignity, pride and independence earned you your place in history? It has and the Palestinians are now in a spot where you guys were centuries ago.

Palestinians will not accept a state which is created by foreigners on their backyard. Palestinians will not accept occupation by a foreign force who has plans to eradicate any Arab or Muslim from their Zionist land called 'Israel'.
Palestinians will not accept discrimination by Zionists.

Suffering, death, pain and loss of life is one of the costs that any PROUD, DIGNIFIED, HONORABLE man of ANY nationality would come to ACCEPT for the greater goal of INDEPENDENCE for their nation and people.

I am sure that ANY human being in the world no matter what NATIONALITY would accept what I say.

[Aekos]

Parallels to the Ottoman Empire aside, there's something that must be accepted. Israel is a country, it exists, and it's quite powerful at that. Almost 80% of the population is Israeli. Yes, it was created out of largely stolen land, but you can't kick these people out. You'd do just as bad (or even worse) what they did to the Palestinians in '48.

The West Bank and Gaza are modern Palestine. They will be modern Palestine until Palestinians outnumber Israelis in all of Palestine, and with all the war and displacement that may be in a while. When we were fighting the Ottomans, they were foreign occupiers that made a relatively small number of our population. The Israeli occupiers in the West Bank make up a comparatively small percentage, that's where the analogy is good. However, mainland Israel is undoubtedly a Jewish state. This is something that has to be accepted for the peace process to go through.

You may say "there will never be a Palestine alongside Israel" but what of the Palestinian people? Do you think some 12-year-old boy whose house was destroyed in the recent assault would prefer that for his whole life he has to live in fear, or that one day there may be peace? Would he rather have to suffer to keep fighting Israel's right to exist or live in peace?

[Lin Zexu]

Parallels to the Ottoman Empire aside, there's something that must be accepted. Israel is a country, it exists, and it's quite powerful at that. Almost 80% of the population is Israeli. Yes, it was created out of largely stolen land, but you can't kick these people out. You'd do just as bad (or even worse) what they did to the Palestinians in '48.

The West Bank and Gaza are modern Palestine. They will be modern Palestine until Palestinians outnumber Israelis in all of Palestine, and with all the war and displacement that may be in a while. When we were fighting the Ottomans, they were foreign occupiers that made a relatively small number of our population. The Israeli occupiers in the West Bank make up a comparatively small percentage, that's where the analogy is good. However, mainland Israel is undoubtedly a Jewish state. This is something that has to be accepted for the peace process to go through.

You may say "there will never be a Palestine alongside Israel" but what of the Palestinian people? Do you think some 12-year-old boy whose house was destroyed in the recent assault would prefer that for his whole life he has to live in fear, or that one day there may be peace? Would he rather have to suffer to keep fighting Israel's right to exist or live in peace?

The Zionists are hailing all Jews to come and live in Israel annually 30.000 Jews are invited to Israel with economic incentives and a promise of a house and a job. The Zionists are importing Jews to LEGALISE their ILLEGAL presence. So your saying that the Palestinians should accept Israel as a state merely because 75% of the 4 million 'Israeli's' are Jews?

So if the Ottomans imported 6 million Tatars and Turks to Serbia and today they would compromise 75% of the 9 million of the population you would say.. well ok we have to accept the Ottoman presence here because they are in such great numbers and they got bigger cannons!?

I'm sorry but we Muslims believe in our principals and always have and we have never submitted or surrendered to an enemy and our history testifies to it. We strongly fought and were as much defeated as we won in battles against the Crusaders but we never surrendered even when most soldiers felt it was impossible to break the well-armed Crusader infantry lines and withstand their cavalry charges... We stood our ground and the Crusaders face a PHYRRIC war. Their victory was also in the long term their defeat. And Hamas with Hezbollah will prevail because their mere objection to the very 'existance' of a Zionist ideology is key to their victory.

With Justice and Faith in their hearts the Palestinians will drive every single Zionist back to their country of origin be it Russia, Ukraine, Western Europe or USA, Canada. We will send them back to their lands from where they came. There is a difference between Jews and Zionists I must reiterate. I am not against Jewish faith but against the ZIONIST ideology. You have good and bad in every people. Jews that accept Jizya(Muslim tax for non-Muslims) and accept an Islamic regime and the state of Palestine will be more than welcome to live with us just as many Jews have in the past. But Jews that call themselves Zionist and have commited genocides and have blood on their hands will be cast out onto their ships and sent across the sea.

Remember Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel but not the Jewish religion!!! We Muslims do not object Jews but Zionists! We Muslims have always accepted Jews and Christians as our brothers and people of the Book(In the Quran it states that Christians and Jews are people of the book and are not to be harmed).

[Lin Zexu]

Parallels to the Ottoman Empire aside, there's something that must be accepted. Israel is a country, it exists, and it's quite powerful at that. Almost 80% of the population is Israeli. Yes, it was created out of largely stolen land, but you can't kick these people out. You'd do just as bad (or even worse) what they did to the Palestinians in '48.

The West Bank and Gaza are modern Palestine. They will be modern Palestine until Palestinians outnumber Israelis in all of Palestine, and with all the war and displacement that may be in a while. When we were fighting the Ottomans, they were foreign occupiers that made a relatively small number of our population. The Israeli occupiers in the West Bank make up a comparatively small percentage, that's where the analogy is good. However, mainland Israel is undoubtedly a Jewish state. This is something that has to be accepted for the peace process to go through.

You may say "there will never be a Palestine alongside Israel" but what of the Palestinian people? Do you think some 12-year-old boy whose house was destroyed in the recent assault would prefer that for his whole life he has to live in fear, or that one day there may be peace? Would he rather have to suffer to keep fighting Israel's right to exist or live in peace?

You say Israel is a country it exists it must be accepted, right?

Well we Muslims do not recognize Israel and therefore for us it doesn't exist. We see Israel as a settlement and colony on occupied land. We see it as an invasion of the former Crusaders. And indeed it is the former Crusaders(English, French) that have helped the Zionists to establish this colony and settlement. Just because most countries of the world recognize Israel it doesn't mean we Muslims should turn a blind eye to this invasion and occupation of our Palestine. Injustice is done and we will not forget or forgive this injustice JUST BECAUSE THE REST TELLS US TO.

Let the millions of Palestinian refugees who live in Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Lebanon come back and we'll see who makes up the 'Majority'