[sebbysteiny]

I read the following article. If true, this is a clear breach of the cease fire by Hamas.

In my experience, what usually happens is this. Hamas breaks the cease fire. Nobody cares. Israel responds. People blame Israel for breaking the cease fire.

So it seems in the interests of truth to put it on record here now that Hamas has breached the cease fire.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 14,00.html

What happens now is anybody's guess. My guess is events like this will get increasingly common until Israel is forced to respond. But it is clear now that Hamas does not intend to allow its people to live in peace.

[Nandi]

That article makes no sense at all and contains crude spelling mistakes. Find us a better source please.

[sebbysteiny]

On what basis do you dispute the accuracy of the source.

This has been published in a respected paper, which means the journalist must have sources.

I'm not going to find new primary evidence just because the journalist made a spelling mistake. I care only about substance, not pettiness.

[clanko]

You rely on YNet when you have discredited using Haaretz for similar effect?

[Godstud]

When does a cease fire mean anything when your country remains occupied/blockaded? Hamas has not broken the ceasefire. Some guys with a bomb that blew up DID. Where is the verification that they were working on Hamas orders? Had a rogue Israeli soldier broke the ceasefire would we be hearing of it?

I don't support the action of the deluded bombers, as you reap what you sow, but at least it wasn't an attack on civilians.

[sebbysteiny]

Clanko

You rely on YNet when you have discredited using Haaretz for similar effect?

I've never discredited Haaretz, or any other Western News organisation.


Godstud

When does a cease fire mean anything when your country remains occupied/blockaded?

But it's only blockaded because Hamas won't agree to having EU monitors at the border. And it means something to those that may die in another round of conflict.

Some guys with a bomb that blew up DID. Where is the verification that they were working on Hamas orders?

According to the article, my understanding is that these guys were known Hamas operatives. I do not think there is any REASONABLE DOUBT that these guys were acting on Hamas' orders.

Had a rogue Israeli soldier broke the ceasefire would we be hearing of it?

I have absolutely no doubt. I'm sure everybody would be singing about it.

I don't support the action of the deluded bombers, as you reap what you sow, but at least it wasn't an attack on civilians.

On what do you base that conclusion? The tactic they have used before is to blow a hole in the security fence, kill some civilans / capture some soldiers, then run back through a tunnel, or die killing innocent. What makes you suspect they were not trying to kill civilians this time?

[redcarpet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ej-h6_CQJM

It was Israel that violated the ceasefire ;P

[clanko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM

Mark Regev, in a delightful moment of honesty. Israel broke its commitments with regards to the easing of the blockade continuously throughout the ceasefire: I have already shown this in a previous thread.

[Captain Sam]

When does a cease fire mean anything when your country remains occupied/blockaded? Hamas has not broken the ceasefire. Some guys with a bomb that blew up DID. Where is the verification that they were working on Hamas orders? Had a rogue Israeli soldier broke the ceasefire would we be hearing of it?

I don't support the action of the deluded bombers, as you reap what you sow, but at least it wasn't an attack on civilians.

Gaza isn't a country, and since Gaza gained independence in 2006, Hamas has not sought to create any sort of state because creating a state isn't one of their goals. Their goal is simply to eliminate the Jews from the world.

Isn't it nice when people ALWAYS seem to forget that Egypt has a blockade on Gaza too?

The entire reason Israel and Egypt have a blockade on Gaza is because of Hamas.

[QatzelOk]

My guess is events like this will get increasingly common until Israel is forced to respond.

Yes, this is everyone's guess.

It's like it's a well-worn strategy for organized crime to set itself up to attack someone smaller by claiming "he started it."

The next attack might free up more water aquafiers or road networks.

[sebbysteiny]

Clanko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM

Mark Regev, in a delightful moment of honesty. Israel broke its commitments with regards to the easing of the blockade continuously throughout the ceasefire: I have already shown this in a previous thread.

This is not really relevant to this thread, which is about the current cease fire not the last one.

I believe I also addressed this in the previous thread. If you still wish to discuss it, do so in that thread not this one please.


Captain Sam

Gaza isn't a country, and since Gaza gained independence in 2006, Hamas has not sought to create any sort of state because creating a state isn't one of their goals. Their goal is simply to eliminate the Jews from the world.

Isn't it nice when people ALWAYS seem to forget that Egypt has a blockade on Gaza too?

The entire reason Israel and Egypt have a blockade on Gaza is because of Hamas.

Eloquent though your arguments are, again this is not relevant to this thread, which is discussing the breach of the current ceasefire by Hamas and its implications.


Qatzel

Yes, this is everyone's guess.

It's like it's a well-worn strategy for organized crime to set itself up to attack someone smaller by claiming "he started it."

Great. So we agree that Hamas is picking a fight with Israel and if Israel claims "Hamas started it", Israel would be correct.

The next attack might free up more water aquafiers or road networks.

How so?

[Swinger7714]

You can't breach a cease fire that does not exist. A cease fire for Hamas usually means that they can continue trying to carry out attacks on Israeli soldiers and civilians, but any attempt by Israel to tackle those attacks is a breach of the "cease fire".

[Zionist Nationalist]

Since end of Operation Cast Lead Hamas and other groups shoot dozens of rockets and mortarts into Israel despite the "cease fire"

only a few days ago 5 mortar shells have been shot from Gaza into Israel.

[redcarpet]

Since end of Operation Cast Lead Hamas and other groups shoot dozens of rockets and mortarts into Israel despite the "cease fire"

Prove Hamas has attacked Israel. This is news to me

[Zionist Nationalist]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 00,00.html

Here you im not sure 100% that Hamas did it but it dosent matter if mortar shells fired from Gaza its cease fire violation and all of gaza strip terrorists groups should take responsibility on this.

[redcarpet]

K, you do know Islamic Jihad is still waging its civil war with Hamas because it regards Hamas as 'too moderate', etc? It could be them. As far as I can see, Hamas is too constrained in its civil war in Gaza in maintaining control, than to be stupid in provoking the regional superpower(Israel).

[Arthur2sheds_Jackson]

Zionist Nationalist wrote:

Since end of Operation Cast Lead Hamas and other groups shoot dozens of rockets and mortarts into Israel despite the "cease fire"

only a few days ago 5 mortar shells have been shot from Gaza into Israel.

If that is true it simply shows what a complete failure Operation Cast Lead was.



.

[redcarpet]

what a complete failure Operation Cast Lead was

Lol, it already was. Recall the main aim was escalated to eliminating Hamas. Result; failure.

A quick way would have been to basically level Gaza, scorched earth, in a massive firebombing campaign. I doubt Fatah will lose its dominance in the WB, even if Gaza was razed.

This Churchil advocated against Iraq after near-instant rebellion after it was created. Though with poison gas

The British used chemical weapons in their 1919 intervention in North Russia against the Bolsheviks, with great success according to the British command. As Secretary of State at the War Office in 1919, Winston Churchill was enthusiastic about the prospects of "using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes"—Kurds and Afghans—and authorized the RAF Middle East command to use chemical weapons "against recalcitrant Arabs as experiment," dismissing objections by the India office as "unreasonable" and deploring the "squeamishness about the use of gas": "we cannot in any circumstances acquiesce in the non-utilisation of any weapons which are available to procure a speedy termination of the disorder which prevails on the frontier," he explained; chemical weapons are merely "the application of Western science to modern warfare."

[Ter]

If that is true it simply shows what a complete failure Operation Cast Lead was.

Not so. The number of terrorist attacks emanating from Gaza is insignificant compared to before Operation Cast Lead.
Every small attack gives the IDF an excuse to go and destroy some smuggling tunnels on the Gaza border with Egypt.
Sderot and the other Israeli towns live in peace and quiet.

Hamas has been cut down to size, Operation Cast Lead was a success.
The only thing Hamas could give the Gazans is a massive heap of rubble to live in.

Ter.

[clanko]

The number of terrorist attacks emanating from Gaza is insignificant compared to before Operation Cast Lead.

Hamas has been cut down to size

Hamas did not fire one single rocket during the ceasefire.