[Aekos]

This place is the shit. Nice buildings, good infrastructure, and only around 20 years old. It's a rather self-sustained and fast growing community. I thought the Haredim were supposed to be useless?

[War Angel]

It's a rather self-sustained and fast growing community.

No, it isn't. They rated at the the lowest socio-economic level (1\10), and only 9% of twelve-graders were eligible for a high-school diploma (the Israeli 'bagrut') in 2004.

They suck so much ass, it's not even funny.

I thought the Haredim were supposed to be useless?

Most are. Hell, useless would be an improvement - they're a burden.

[Tailz]

Got photos to share?

[War Angel]

http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/201220 ... tar_wa.jpg

http://www.col.org.il/pics/nf_4241_123262.jpg

http://www.koogle.co.il/Images/News/fghhtt567890.jpg

http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/020120 ... /55_wa.jpg

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/images/ ... 00.1.9.jpg

http://www.duk.co.il/image/users/90401/ ... %D7%91.bmp

http://hh.1800550.net/images/85619405530.jpg

[Aekos]

No, it isn't. They rated at the the lowest socio-economic level (1\10), and only 9% of twelve-graders were eligible for a high-school diploma (the Israeli 'bagrut') in 2004.

That's what I get for finding most of my information on their site.

[War Angel]

That's what I get for finding most of my information on their site.

Google is your friend, and so is Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitar_Illit

[Aekos]

All Wiki told me were nice things like

Despite having no industry and minimal commerce, as well as a population that is generally weak economically, Beitar Illit has been awarded the Israeli Interior Ministry's gold prize for a balanced budget seven years running. The municipal welfare department was awarded a prize and recognized by the national government as an "outstanding department" for its work in preventing teen dropouts. The city also received the 2005 national "flag award," as well as the Council for a Beautiful Israel's "Stars of Beauty" prize as one of the cleanest Israeli municipalities, and for community education programs emphasizing recycling, for five years running.

Do settlements get random awards for the hell of it?

[chaostrivia]

Do settlements get random awards for the hell of it?

We even have a slang-term for this kind of BS: "Israbluff".

If one day there will be peace with the Arabs, the war of the jews will start. The secular vs. the religious.

Beitar Ilit is really shit like all the ultraorthodox. I once heard a story about a guy who were caught reading a secular newspaper's sports edition and was harassed by the authorities and the rabbis of beitar illit so that he gave up and emigrated.

If forced to choose between two options, I would prefer to live in an Arab village than in a Haredi neighborhood.

[Nets]

Let Palestine have it. As I've said many times on this board, the ultra orthodox leadership is a bigger threat to Israel's long-term viability than the PLO and Hamas combined.

The worst part is that an anti-Zionist community would dare live in a community named "Beitar". What chutzpah.

[LehmanB]

they're a burden.

I understand that instead of being a home to the Jewish nation, Israel should be a home to those who can pay.

[Nets]

I shudder to think of being part of the same nation as that lazy, backwards community straight out of 16th century Lithuania. God forbid.

[Aekos]

I don't get what's so bad about these guys. They build a buffer around Israel with their settlements and populate it with their crazy birth rate. That birth rate helps you keep up with Palestinians with regard to population, even if they're not "normal" Jews.

[War Angel]

If forced to choose between two options, I would prefer to live in an Arab village than in a Haredi neighborhood.

Let's not exaggerate. The Haredim may be backwards and a serious pain the ass, but they are not an immediate physical threat. They're very feeble and also commit very little crime, and their society, while oppressive, is not violent. The only reason they've gone rampant in Israel, is because we let them. We coddle them, where we should be laying the hurt down on them.

As I've said many times on this board, the ultra orthodox leadership is a bigger threat to Israel's long-term viability than the PLO and Hamas combined.

Agreed, but only so far as they weaken us, and then our enemies will make minced meat out of us.

I understand that instead of being a home to the Jewish nation, Israel should be a home to those who can pay.

Yes, they should pay with sweat, blood and tears, like the rest of us. They shed neither of these, not ever. They're completely detached from the Israeli experience and struggle, and yet suck us dry when money is concerned.

I don't get what's so bad about these guys. They build a buffer around Israel with their settlements and populate it with their crazy birth rate.

A) They're Haredi Jews, that's really enough.
B) They didn't build shit. They're all Haredim from Bnei Brak and Jerusalem, they were put there. They lack any self-sustainability, and cannot protect themselves or even provide for themselves. I'm sure that at the first sign of danger, they'd flee.

That birth rate helps you keep up with Palestinians with regard to population, even if they're not "normal" Jews.

Yay, more useless mouths to feed. They do not serve in the military or anything else, do not work, have no useful modern skills (they can't even drive for shit), they're a massive burden.

[Aekos]

Yay, more useless mouths to feed. They do not serve in the military or anything else, do not work, have no useful modern skills (they can't even drive for shit), they're a massive burden.

That doesn't mean future generations won't be useful. Israel won't subsidize them forever.

[War Angel]

That doesn't mean future generations won't be useful. Israel won't subsidize them forever.

Future generations will be equally as useless, unless we stop feeding and pampering them now. We've been doing this for over 60 years now, they've basically vegetated...

If we crack down hard on them now, militarise them, educate them and force them to work, maybe there's a small chance of this populace becoming useful some day.

[Aekos]

Future generations will be equally as useless, unless we stop feeding and pampering them now.

I still don't fully understand the issue. Unless the pampering would cause societal collapse, their birth rate does a good job of keeping Israel Jewish. I know I'd like crazy ultranationalist Serbs in Kosovo over Albanians any day.

[War Angel]

their birth rate does a good job of keeping Israel Jewish.

But that's the thing - they're Jews, but they're not Israelis, they're not nationally Jewish, they feel nothing and do nothing for the Jewish nation. They don't care.

So, they might as well be raising cabbages there. Their presence, aside from costing the Israeli tax-payer a lot of money and grief, is more or less pointless.

I know I'd like crazy ultranationalist Serbs in Kosovo over Albanians any day.

I didn't say they were worse than the Arabs - they're not. That still doesn't place them very highly, though.

[Aekos]

But that's the thing - they're Jews, but they're not Israelis, they're not nationally Jewish, they feel nothing and do nothing for the Jewish nation. They don't care.

I see. Are there any major parties that call for an end to their pampering?

[Nets]

Shinui won 15/120 seats (out of nowhere) in 2003 campaigning on an explicitly anti-Haredim platform. 2003 was the first time in decades that a governing coalition could be formed without the Taliban, (whoops, I mean Shas and UTJ), in the government.

Too bad the party unraveled.

[LehmanB]

Taliban

oh, so now they stone people in studiums. I see. And back In Poland they must have executed and tortured people to death. Oh, and they destroy art pieces of other cultures when they have a chance. interesting to know..

lazy, backwards community

they don't pay taxes due to the welfare system rules, and most of them are not doing an army service due to Ben Guryon descision that haven't been changed yet, but they are far from been called lazy.

and whats the problem that they are backwords? everybody has such groups in their countries. the Americans have the Amish, in Holland they have paralel communities.. not everyone should be straight to one culture or ideal. This is liberalism btw.

Yes, they should pay with sweat, blood and tears, like the rest of us.

They build Beitar Illit while you sit in Gush Dan and rmain the borders of Israel empty.
*you = 50% of the non religious Jewish in Israel.

anyhow, they should pay in sweat, yet this is not a condition for becomming an Israeli.

yet suck us dry when money is concerned.

They bring many Jewish babies, you don't.

have no useful modern skills

Ok, so you will make machines, and they will make the babies and keep the Jewish culture alive for the next centuaries.

If we crack down hard on them now, militarise them, educate them and force them to work, maybe there's a small chance of this populace becoming useful some day.

this is a bad idea. you should slowly melt them in the working system and army. the Robespierre ideas to crack and break will make dammage. You don't break groups and ancient cultures for more taxes.

But that's the thing - they're Jews, but they're not Israelis, they're not nationally Jewish, they feel nothing and do nothing for the Jewish nation. They don't care.

This is very not true. They feel as a nation more than the ultra leftists in Tel Aviv. They are nationally Jews and recognized themselves as such.
They have various of groups among themselves, and they are now boycotting Satmer group for being anti zionist.