Is ADVERSE POSSESSION ALIVE IN THE M.E - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14327287
Ottoman Law and Adverse Possession in the West Bank (From an article found on google)

March 20, 2012 § 1 Comment

"The Israeli Supreme Court issued a ruling today that overturned a law remaining on the books from the Ottoman period allowing settlers to claim ownership of land that they did not previously own if they have farmed it for at least ten years. Law students will immediately recognize the parallel to adverse possession, which is a common law concept relating to property that allows someone who openly, notoriously, and continually possesses someone else’s land to gain ownership of it after a set amount of time (I have blocked most memories of law school from my mind, but I seem to recall seven years as being the minimum). This Supreme Court ruling does away with the use of adverse possession in the West Bank, and it should be applauded for two reasons".

"One, there is a distinction to be made between settlers who have used the law to gain possession of farm land and the type of adverse possession law that exists in the U.S. The reasoning behind adverse possession in U.S. common law is that we want to maximize the efficient use of property, and so if the adverse possessor is using the land in a productive manner and the land’s true owner is neglecting it, utility maximization dictates that the person using the land should get to continue to do so legally. There is an important component to this, however, which is that the adverse possessor does so openly and notoriously, which gives the land’s owner adequate notice and opportunity to challenge the adverse possessor. In the West Bank cases, the original Palestinian owners have largely not been afforded the opportunity to evict the settlers farming the land or have been blocked from challenging the settlers in court due to the military’s jurisdiction over the West Bank. Today’s ruling rights what is a clear wrong, and does not allow settlers to, in the words of the court, invade land rather than honestly take it."

How might the above action be used in the West Bank ?
I have read that Israel was remiss in not framing any laws to prevent Arab Suits in respect to their land grabs. Is this an effort to correct an oversight or what ?
#14327507
Oxymoron wrote:What ever it is, it allows the land to be used in the best use principle of real estate.


The prior law allowed the Arabs who owned and occupied the land to Sue for its return but by their actions had never the less

objected to the grab but were ignored by Israel .

The change while said good, is deliberately too late I suspect to be of value to the Arabs as most of that period would be dead.
#14330707
Buzz62 wrote:I think every Palestinian should sue for their land back.
They don't have any land except for the land that the gracious Israelis allow them to squat on. The land they were squatting on during the Ottoman period was never theirs. In any case that so called 'Palestinian Land' was lost as a result of their own religious prejudice bad choices, miscalculations and military failures. The land is Israeli territory by right of just conquest and that is the way it is and the way it will remain.
#14332617
Regardless of being forced from the land or simply abandoning it (if after the period of time that elapsed
without efforts to reclaim it); possession and improvement by the Arabs over that period of time by inhabiting it, would IMO by logic of referring to related existing laws of the time give the Arabs title.

Defense by Israel of their actions contrary to such as above is basically based only on their often used and enforced argument when challenged that "black is white".

Now after 60+ years and their invasion and occupation of the lands involved they write that such actions as they themselves have initiated are henceforth illegal.

Go figure ?
#14332805
Buzz62 wrote:I don't think theft is "just conquest". But hey...that's just my opinion...along with a rather large and growing contingent...


Decades of terrorist attacks the spectacles at Lod, Munich, Uganda etc etc, and hundreds more have set the tone and have given the Israeli hard liners all the ammo they need to keep a firm boot on Palestinian necks. If the Palestinians dropped the Macho freedom fighter crap and their operations against random Israelis ceased for five consecutive years the situation would change. But that isn't going to happen because no one is in charge of all the little militias and bands of ignorant malcontents. The days are gone when Palestinians are allowed to roam free in the lands Israel allows them to occupy. The Muslims got what they asked for in the West Bank, control of public services and they got it. They also got disconnected from the Israeli built power grid and drinking water supply system. Now portable generators are very popular and they drink almost untreated waste water from irrigation ditches that is supplied by Palestinian scam artists that get the water to look sediment free and sell that pesticide laden shit by the liter as pure drinking water from the back of a tank truck.

Growing contingent...in Canada and Europe? So what

In my opinion there is no point in Israel making concessions to the Palestenians because if you give them an inch they will want a mile and no matter what Israel does they will always have more demands. And when those demands are rejected they will always respond with rockets, IEDs and a few suicide bombers.
#14332859
Pugsville wrote:Israel, the IDF, Jewish? paramilitaries has its own long history of terrorism. the Palestinian violence (which i dont support and condemn) did not occur in vacuum. do you condemn Jewish terrorism ?
Of course I do. In the past indiscriminate revenge driven airstrikes on a Palestinian refugee camps classify as war crimes as do 'mad minutes' with a Platoon of tanks firing main gun and heavy machine gun rounds into a populated neighborhood do.

I have never claimed that either side operates from a rational base...religious warfare is seldom the product of rational thought. However as a weaker force the Palestinians should learn how to achieve their goals without violence. As it is every rocket attack on unarmed Israeli civilians reinforces the position of the hard line Zionists and pushes the prospect of a mutually agreeable solution further into the future.
#14333115
All other arguments aside:

Has the U.S. received equal value or any for that matter for the billions of dollars we have given Israel and the dangerous position we have placed ourselves in with HARRY TRUMAN'S DECISION. to OK the deal in the first place.?

Coldheartedly; Do we need Israel for anything ?

Without Israel would the strife between remaining countries hamper our position in respect to obtaining oil ?

Iran with the bomb is no major threat to us. China has the dollars and expansion in mind and needs both oil and markets to do so. Russia also has oil and a significant military to desire and aid in helping to maintain balance along with financial growth without war.

IMO this is is a period in which cooperation between major powers make it possible to advance without an uncontrollable situation developing "IF" Israel is held in place. We in the U.S. need legislators who see THIS picture as assurance for reelection not the ambitions of Israel.
#14333141
skeptic-1 wrote:IMO this is is a period in which cooperation between major powers make it possible to advance without an uncontrollable situation developing "IF" Israel is held in place.

Israel would like nothing better than "to be held in place" as you so eloquently put it.
It is the Muslim terrorists and the Arabs and the so-called progressives (many of them vile racist antisemites) that would like to see Israel disappear as a Jewish State.
#14333168
Ter wrote:Israel would like nothing better than "to be held in place" as you so eloquently put it. It is the Muslim terrorists and the Arabs and the so-called progressives (many of them vile racist antisemites) that would like to see Israel disappear as a Jewish State.
I agree and in my book it is the slime bucket progressives that really want to see Israel disappear as a Jewish state. I find it strange that in a region that is host to better than a dozen Muslim states the progressive swine can't find room for one small Jewish state. Well those punks can kiss my ass and the collective asses of the Israelis. If the idiotic progressives think they can legislate Israel out of existence they are more delusional than I thought. If Israel goes down I hope they go down while launching nuclear weapons at ever pack of assholes that brought about her destruction. A thermonuclear day of atonement.

I can't believe that skeptic 1 made this dirt dumb remark:
skeptic 1 wrote:Has the U.S. received equal value or any for that matter for the billions of dollars we have given Israel
Has the U.S. received equal value for the billions of dollars we have given Egypt and other Muslim countries? For a lot of reasons we have received a good return on the money we have given to Israel since 85% of that cash is sent back to the united States for repair parts and consumables (ammunition) and another billion or two of Israeli money on top of that to US defense industries. And I suppose that I should mention that IMI transfers upon request any and all military technology to the USA that it desires. Israel has been a partner and contributed greatly to US high tech weaponry. Egypt and other Muslim countries on the other hand can\t find their own dicks with a six Mullah search party. The return from Egypt and the Muslim gang is ZERO.
#14333236
IMO

It would be difficult for Israel to shed the cloak that:

their very essence is weaponry and war;

Outshone only by their cleverness and dedication to their cause. (commendable !) for them.

Skeptic:

Reur: Egypt and other Muslim countries on the other hand can\t find their own dicks with a six Mullah search party. The return from Egypt and the Muslim gang is ZERO.

Oil, Oil. Oil Possession or control !
#14333896
skeptic-1 wrote:All other arguments aside:

Has the U.S. received equal value or any for that matter for the billions of dollars we have given Israel and the dangerous position we have placed ourselves in with HARRY TRUMAN'S DECISION. to OK the deal in the first place.?

Coldheartedly; Do we need Israel for anything ?

Without Israel would the strife between remaining countries hamper our position in respect to obtaining oil ?

Iran with the bomb is no major threat to us. China has the dollars and expansion in mind and needs both oil and markets to do so. Russia also has oil and a significant military to desire and aid in helping to maintain balance along with financial growth without war.

IMO this is is a period in which cooperation between major powers make it possible to advance without an uncontrollable situation developing "IF" Israel is held in place. We in the U.S. need legislators who see THIS picture as assurance for reelection not the ambitions of Israel.

Israel contributes nothing of any real and positive value to this world.

NOTHING!

Unless, of course, you consider being the main reason for all the extremest Muslims a "positive" thing...

The taps are slowly being turned off on Israel.
The public may not be the most intelligent entity around...but they are beginning to see this truth...and question.

In response, Hague told Sky News that "Israel has lost some of its support in Britain and in other European countries over time - this is something I've often pointed out to Israeli leaders - because of settlement activity, which we condemn."

The British foreign secretary added, "We strongly disagree with settlements on occupied land. Israel is a country we work with in many ways but we do disapprove of settlements."

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Hague-Israel-losing-support-in-UK-because-of-settlements-314247

The survey was carried out by pollster and strategist Stanley Greenberg and sponsored by the American Jewish organization the Israel Project, which organizes and executes pro-Israel public relations campaigns with a focus on North America.

Greenberg, along with Israel Project heads, presented the poll's findings to senior Israeli officials, including President Shimon Peres, Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor, as well as officials from the Prime Minister's office.

One of the questions that the poll presented was "Does the U.S. need to support Israel?" In August of 2009, 63% of Americans polled said that the U.S. does need to support Israel. In June of this year, 58% of respondents shared the same view; by July only 51% of respondents said the U.S. needed to support Israel.

Another question posed by the pole was "Is the Israeli government committed to peace with the Palestinians?" In December of 2007, 66% of respondents said that the government, then led by Ehud Olmert, was committed to peace with the Palestinians. In June of 2009, a month after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited the White House, only 46% of Americans said they believed the Netanyahu government was committed to peace.

In the months of May and June, there appeared to be a positive change in American public opinion on the matter, with 53% of respondents saying they believe Netanyahu seeks peace. However, in July, only 45% of American said they felt Netanyahu was committed to the peace process. Thirty-nine percent responded that Netanyahu and his administration are not committed to seeking peace with the Palestinians.

Greenberg has analyzed the poll results and says that the section of the American public where Israel is most rapidly losing support is among Liberal Americans who align themselves with the Democratic Party.

Greenberg's data showed similar findings among public opinion in Germany and Sweden.

Only 19% of German respondents said they felt "warm" or "very warm" feelings toward Israel, while 50% responded they experienced "very cold" or unfavorable feelings toward Israel.

The survey also showed Germans favored Palestinians over Israel, with 26% percent saying they felt "warm" or "very warm" feelings toward them and 39% feeling "cold" or "very cold" feelings toward Palestinians.

Greenberg conducted similar surveys in European countries and said the data reflects the worst time for Israel with regard to German public opinion since 2008.

In France, the data were a little better, but Israel did not achieve widespread public support there either: 24% said they felt "warm" or "very warm" feelings toward Israel, while 31% felt "cold" or "very cold" feelings toward it.

Greenberg noted, however, that these findings have remained stable over the last three years.

Meanwhile, in Sweden, the situation was similar to that in Germany, with 49% percent saying their feelings toward Israel were "cold" or "very cold."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/u-s-support-for-israel-is-decreasing-new-poll-shows-1.308855

As anyone can see...support is dwindling.
I think its also important to note that the group in the USA who show the least support for Israel, is those who identify themselves as Democrats. This is important because currently Republican support is also dwindling.

I've been warning of this for a long time now...and I suspect very few took the facts as serious.
It doesn't matter who started this conflict...although I think its safe to say Israel did...
What matters is the situation today.
And today, people see Israel as a "lightning rod" for Muslim aggression.

I don't expect the Israelis to change their ways any time soon.
Thus I do expect these dropping support numbers to continue to fall.
At a certain point, the electorate itself will question all the monetary support.
Soon there after...it'll be cut off.
And then what?
The Israelis nuke the entire region?
I hope they realize the serious repercussions for Jews globally...should they do such a thing.
#14335015
Iran needs nothing from Israel and there is no obvious reason for their attack.

Israel needs war or the threat of it as an income producer to stay alive.

Why would we listen to advice from a nation that for over 60 years

cannot find a way to peace without annihilation of or threat of same

to their antagonists.

The world powers say we are going to PREVENT WAR if we have to tie and gag

Netanyaho. (phonetic) :-)
#14349760
Ter wrote:Israel would like nothing better than "to be held in place" as you so eloquently put it.
It is the Muslim terrorists and the Arabs and the so-called progressives (many of them vile racist antisemites) that would like to see Israel disappear as a Jewish State.

I consider myself to be progressive in my stance against exclusive character states, including the exclusive nature of Israel as a Jewish state. Israel should be a state for Israeli's, all Israelis. Is that a vile racist antisemitic point of view?

Israel can be a home to the Jewish people, while not being a Jewish state.

The problem is the exclusive nature of single character states, how can such states be for all members of the state when the very character of the state excludes those not of that character?

By allocation state character to one group of people, your creating a system of first and second class citizens. We have already seen what happens in such situations, do you really want Israel, or any nation state to become such? I don't. Thus why I oppose such characterisation for all nation states.
#14349773
Tailz wrote:Israel can be a home to the Jewish people, while not being a Jewish state.

No, that is impossible.
The moment the Arabs gain a numerical majority, they will take over by the ballot box and make it the umpteenth Islamic Republic or worse.
Do you think any of the fifty seven Muslim-majority countries would allow a non-Muslim majority to take over ?

Listen Tailz, it is what it is and I am not happy with the situation either. It is a fait accompli which was implemented before you (and even I) was born.

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