By PhantomStranger - 27 Jun 2021 16:36
- 27 Jun 2021 16:36
#15178743
I have never read an anti-Israel poster on any forum show they have a clue what Zionism is. They use the usual buzz words like colonialism, imperialism, apartheid, or claim its based on a Jewish belief that Jews think they are superior than others and that is why they use the word "chosen", all bullshit.
In fact Jews liberated themselves from the very colonialists the Arab League of Nations were created by and chose to fight along side to try rid the Middle East of Jews in 1948-1949. The Arab League nations were puppets of the French, British, ex Nazis who moved to the ME and then the Soviets.
Jews ethnically cleaned from Middle East Muslim countries and forced out of Europe as well as those born there are people who liberated themselves from the very colonialists the Arab League of Nations was created by and embraced.
The term "chosen" misappropriated by non Jews thinking it is the basis of Zionism is bullshit. In fact the Bible does not define Jews as superior to nn Jews just the exact opposite. It is in fact Christianity and Islam that define Jews as inferior. Jews can not proseltyze and impose their religion on others through forced conversion or even initiated conversion. It can only come voluntarily from non Jews.
Next the fact someone may convert to Judaism is only one way to define Jews. In fact those born Jewish have no uniform consensus as to who a Jew is and it is not limited to religion. In the Bible there is a story that for Jews to survive as a nation or collective identity in a world surrounding them that wanted to render them extinct, the unifying glue that would keep them together to survive and not fight with each other was an agreement with "God" to worship this God through the collective of Jews not as individual Jews. In this manner "God" could remember the "Jews" as a distinct people. They entered into a "covenant" or agreement. That agreement did not say they were better than others. It meant if they chose to worship "God" as a collective, this "God" would then remember and deal with them as a "collective". Period. It was an analogy to unify the Hebrews at a time where they faced extinction
Zionism is a political concept and its leading proponent among many was Theodor Herzl, an Austrian journalist who was NOT against Jews assimilating as citizens in other nations. It was his belief though that because of entrenched anti-semitism in the states of Europe flowing from the preachings of Christianity that Jews were descended from the killers of Christ, that peaceful assimilation and equal treatment would never truly b e achieved. So he and others living in Europe with wide spread hatred of Jews promulgated by governments deeply connected to the Christian Gospels of Paul in regards to Jews being a cursed people, argued, IF Jews were forced by external pressure to form a nation, they could lead a normal existence only through concentration in one territory.
It was in 1897 Herzl organized with others the first Zionist Congress at Basel, Switzerland, which drew up the Basel program of the movement, stating that “Zionism strives to create for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law.”
It was a political response to anti-semitism, period. It did not use Biblical or religious terms as to defining Jews other than using the Bible as a historic reference to explain where Jews originated from and never stopped living in since the original days of the Hebrew nations. It defines Jews as indigenous to there Israel, the West Bank and parts of the Middle East (Arabian peninsula) where they originally had nations long before Christians and Muslims. This is why the return would be to where its people came from specifically so that it would NOT be colonialist imperialist.
Therein lies the irony. Jews envisioned their homeland not as some arbitrary chosen geographic spot, but precisely because its people had and have lived their consecutively over 4,000 years.
Now let us be crystal clear. There are non Jewish Zionists which is a clear indication how Zionism is not necessarily something only someone of Jewish religion follows. Some of the most fervent Zionists are Christian Zionists for their own religious reasons.
There are in fact Muslims who interperate the Koran and Muhammed as referring to a Jewish state and even acknowledging Jerusalem as the head of this state
There are in fact the Bahaii people who have their head Temple in Haifa and peacefully co-exist in Israel.
Precisely because of the doctrines of Zionism non Jewish citizens of Israel have religious freedom and are allowed to opt out of any religious laws or family laws.
Judaism does not define Muslims as unable to own land as being inferior to Jews in the laws of Israel as Muslim laws to in reverse in Muslim Middle East nations. While Israel is defined as a Jewish state it does not meana Jew by definition is only someone who practices Judaism. The reason for that is because there are many different types of Jewish religious groups, Ultra-Orthodox who do not believe Israel can exist until the "Messiah" returns, Ultra-Orthodox who recognize Israel, Orthodox, Conservative, Liberal or Reform, Reconstructionist, Humanist, agnotistic-atheist and Jews who might not be religious at all and identify their group identity as an ethnicity not a relgious idea.
There are some Jews who call themselves Biblical Zionists not to be confused with Christian Zionists who also use that term. These non Christian Biblical Zionists will quote the Bible to argue Judea and Somaria which is where Israel and the West Bank and Jordan are today is the land of Israel.
In fact Judea and Somaria renamed "Palestine" was never a nation just a word used for a geographic location. It was a land that the League of nations was supposed to divide equally between Jews and Muslims into two nations but was never done because the British unilagterallyt 80% of that land and created the Jewish free Palestinian nation of Jordan violating their mandate. They violated that mandate in association with France under the Picot agreement whereby France created colonies in what is now Syria and Lebanon.
Faisal the leader in Syria had entered into a peaceful agreement with Jews to have two nations. Israel probably would have taken on very much an identity like Luxembourg or Monaco or Switzerland. It would have guaranteed Jewish protection and land rights but recognize the Muslim world around it and vice versa.
The French and British did not want that alliance because they feared with that alliance they could not contol the oil supplies.
The French lied to Faisal the night before he was to sign the agreement feeding him a fake story Jews would later break the agreement and he took the bait and ripped up the agreement. Then the very next day the French arrested him and expelled him from Syria to create its states in Syria and Lebanon. The British then placated Faisal by placing one of his sons as King of Jordan and the other as King of Iraq.
Look at the nations created. Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria are colonial inventions jamming together feuding peoples so the British and French could divide and conquer. Ironically the French and British thought the Jews would disappear if they assisted these nations attack it and seize it.
That never happened. Israel came about not out of a notion of superiority but because its Jewish people no longer wished tobe second class and discriminated against in Europe AND equally important they did not want to be defined as they still are do this day as inferiors unable to own land (dhimmmis) in the Muslim religious apartheid system of dhimmitude.
The so called Biblical Zionists might call themselves religious and quote the Bible but if you listen carefully they do not and can not use Biblical terminology directly because it does not address their beliefs.
Most Jews in Israel who are its citizens are not religious. They are best described as existential practicalists living in the here and now trying to defend against terrorism to continue existing. Not much more then that, other than as well a shared belief they are over-taxed. Zionism does not define who is a Jew based on what they practice religously. It has political parties that try to, but they are a minority in the Knesset. The Knesset also has communists and Arab Israeli nationalists who call for the dismantling of Israel being a Jewish state.
It has some extremists on the West Bank originally from New York who started a Kache Party which was extremist and one of their extremists killed Yitzhak Rabin for trying to make peace with Araraft. When Arafat ripped up the peace agreement with Rabin and told the world he was lying and never intended to ever recognize Israel as a Jewish state-it was the end of Rabin. Extremists thought he was a traitor.
The majority of Israelis do not use the Bible or the religion to define their identity.
In fact Jews liberated themselves from the very colonialists the Arab League of Nations were created by and chose to fight along side to try rid the Middle East of Jews in 1948-1949. The Arab League nations were puppets of the French, British, ex Nazis who moved to the ME and then the Soviets.
Jews ethnically cleaned from Middle East Muslim countries and forced out of Europe as well as those born there are people who liberated themselves from the very colonialists the Arab League of Nations was created by and embraced.
The term "chosen" misappropriated by non Jews thinking it is the basis of Zionism is bullshit. In fact the Bible does not define Jews as superior to nn Jews just the exact opposite. It is in fact Christianity and Islam that define Jews as inferior. Jews can not proseltyze and impose their religion on others through forced conversion or even initiated conversion. It can only come voluntarily from non Jews.
Next the fact someone may convert to Judaism is only one way to define Jews. In fact those born Jewish have no uniform consensus as to who a Jew is and it is not limited to religion. In the Bible there is a story that for Jews to survive as a nation or collective identity in a world surrounding them that wanted to render them extinct, the unifying glue that would keep them together to survive and not fight with each other was an agreement with "God" to worship this God through the collective of Jews not as individual Jews. In this manner "God" could remember the "Jews" as a distinct people. They entered into a "covenant" or agreement. That agreement did not say they were better than others. It meant if they chose to worship "God" as a collective, this "God" would then remember and deal with them as a "collective". Period. It was an analogy to unify the Hebrews at a time where they faced extinction
Zionism is a political concept and its leading proponent among many was Theodor Herzl, an Austrian journalist who was NOT against Jews assimilating as citizens in other nations. It was his belief though that because of entrenched anti-semitism in the states of Europe flowing from the preachings of Christianity that Jews were descended from the killers of Christ, that peaceful assimilation and equal treatment would never truly b e achieved. So he and others living in Europe with wide spread hatred of Jews promulgated by governments deeply connected to the Christian Gospels of Paul in regards to Jews being a cursed people, argued, IF Jews were forced by external pressure to form a nation, they could lead a normal existence only through concentration in one territory.
It was in 1897 Herzl organized with others the first Zionist Congress at Basel, Switzerland, which drew up the Basel program of the movement, stating that “Zionism strives to create for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law.”
It was a political response to anti-semitism, period. It did not use Biblical or religious terms as to defining Jews other than using the Bible as a historic reference to explain where Jews originated from and never stopped living in since the original days of the Hebrew nations. It defines Jews as indigenous to there Israel, the West Bank and parts of the Middle East (Arabian peninsula) where they originally had nations long before Christians and Muslims. This is why the return would be to where its people came from specifically so that it would NOT be colonialist imperialist.
Therein lies the irony. Jews envisioned their homeland not as some arbitrary chosen geographic spot, but precisely because its people had and have lived their consecutively over 4,000 years.
Now let us be crystal clear. There are non Jewish Zionists which is a clear indication how Zionism is not necessarily something only someone of Jewish religion follows. Some of the most fervent Zionists are Christian Zionists for their own religious reasons.
There are in fact Muslims who interperate the Koran and Muhammed as referring to a Jewish state and even acknowledging Jerusalem as the head of this state
There are in fact the Bahaii people who have their head Temple in Haifa and peacefully co-exist in Israel.
Precisely because of the doctrines of Zionism non Jewish citizens of Israel have religious freedom and are allowed to opt out of any religious laws or family laws.
Judaism does not define Muslims as unable to own land as being inferior to Jews in the laws of Israel as Muslim laws to in reverse in Muslim Middle East nations. While Israel is defined as a Jewish state it does not meana Jew by definition is only someone who practices Judaism. The reason for that is because there are many different types of Jewish religious groups, Ultra-Orthodox who do not believe Israel can exist until the "Messiah" returns, Ultra-Orthodox who recognize Israel, Orthodox, Conservative, Liberal or Reform, Reconstructionist, Humanist, agnotistic-atheist and Jews who might not be religious at all and identify their group identity as an ethnicity not a relgious idea.
There are some Jews who call themselves Biblical Zionists not to be confused with Christian Zionists who also use that term. These non Christian Biblical Zionists will quote the Bible to argue Judea and Somaria which is where Israel and the West Bank and Jordan are today is the land of Israel.
In fact Judea and Somaria renamed "Palestine" was never a nation just a word used for a geographic location. It was a land that the League of nations was supposed to divide equally between Jews and Muslims into two nations but was never done because the British unilagterallyt 80% of that land and created the Jewish free Palestinian nation of Jordan violating their mandate. They violated that mandate in association with France under the Picot agreement whereby France created colonies in what is now Syria and Lebanon.
Faisal the leader in Syria had entered into a peaceful agreement with Jews to have two nations. Israel probably would have taken on very much an identity like Luxembourg or Monaco or Switzerland. It would have guaranteed Jewish protection and land rights but recognize the Muslim world around it and vice versa.
The French and British did not want that alliance because they feared with that alliance they could not contol the oil supplies.
The French lied to Faisal the night before he was to sign the agreement feeding him a fake story Jews would later break the agreement and he took the bait and ripped up the agreement. Then the very next day the French arrested him and expelled him from Syria to create its states in Syria and Lebanon. The British then placated Faisal by placing one of his sons as King of Jordan and the other as King of Iraq.
Look at the nations created. Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria are colonial inventions jamming together feuding peoples so the British and French could divide and conquer. Ironically the French and British thought the Jews would disappear if they assisted these nations attack it and seize it.
That never happened. Israel came about not out of a notion of superiority but because its Jewish people no longer wished tobe second class and discriminated against in Europe AND equally important they did not want to be defined as they still are do this day as inferiors unable to own land (dhimmmis) in the Muslim religious apartheid system of dhimmitude.
The so called Biblical Zionists might call themselves religious and quote the Bible but if you listen carefully they do not and can not use Biblical terminology directly because it does not address their beliefs.
Most Jews in Israel who are its citizens are not religious. They are best described as existential practicalists living in the here and now trying to defend against terrorism to continue existing. Not much more then that, other than as well a shared belief they are over-taxed. Zionism does not define who is a Jew based on what they practice religously. It has political parties that try to, but they are a minority in the Knesset. The Knesset also has communists and Arab Israeli nationalists who call for the dismantling of Israel being a Jewish state.
It has some extremists on the West Bank originally from New York who started a Kache Party which was extremist and one of their extremists killed Yitzhak Rabin for trying to make peace with Araraft. When Arafat ripped up the peace agreement with Rabin and told the world he was lying and never intended to ever recognize Israel as a Jewish state-it was the end of Rabin. Extremists thought he was a traitor.
The majority of Israelis do not use the Bible or the religion to define their identity.