[Abood]

I started this thread here 'cause well, Zionism is Jewish nationalism.
Anyway, here's the question...

Do all Zionists believe that Israel is the Zionist state and support it, or are there people who believe that a Jewish homeland should be created somehwere else?

[Stipe]

Back when Zionism was getting started there were other possibilities considered. Herzl's pamphlet "Der Judenstaat" explores the possibility of a Jewish state in Argentina. A possible state located in Africa was also explored as an option but halfheartedly as most Zionists were set on a state in Palestine. Establishing the Jewish state in Palestine always had the strongest sentimental pull because of its being the historic homeland of the Jewish nation.

Now that the Jewish state has been established, it's pretty much a given that Zionists would uniformally support it where it is.

[dannymu]

Historically the Jews are from the Middle East. Exactly the region where is the current Israeli state.

[przk]

To me it makes sense that Israel exists. No population can live among other cultures for long without inciting some kind of resentment, so each population needs a homeland. Unfortunately it seems like the middle east situation is more complicated than my simple explanation, but Israel's existence seems to make sense to me.

[Ghetto Defendant]

Then again, not all Jews are Zionists. Example:

http://nkuk.org

[Zagadka]

To me it makes sense that Israel exists. No population can live among other cultures for long without inciting some kind of resentment, so each population needs a homeland.

Pardon, but that's bloody ridiculous, based on racial segregation and eugenics. We may not all always like each other, and there are plenty of conflicts between ethnicities, but there are also plenty of conflicts between religions, political and economic ideologies, etc. We've just got to live together. Jews have managed well enough in Europe and America for the past 50 years.

[Gletkin]

^^^^
That's actually a common argument against Zionism. That it mirrors anti-Semitic sentiment that the Jew and the Gentile can't co-exist.

[Eddier1]

We've just got to live together. Jews have managed well enough in Europe and America for the past 50 years.

Loathe I am to discuss the place of Jews anywhere. It a question that I consider moot. It is convoluted, but given the rudiments of what seems to be the beginnings of world warIII, I will offer some voice on the topic.

First, let me point out that there is not really a presence in current European demographics that would make Jews a relevant part of Europe anymore. The Nazis are responsible for that fact. And in America, the very snall population of Jews are only relevant due to their place on top of the heap of economic success and influence.

Gletkin seems to have it right about Zionism, and I would only add that it not only features anti-semitism among gentiles BUT also anti-gentilism on the part of Jews.

It ought to be noted that the anti-gentilism has biblical support in the Old Testament in the book of Jerimiah the Prophet who said that God told him that all Jews are required to "give the cup of fury unto all gentiles". That being said, there is no way in heaven nor hell that Jews and Gentiles can live together in harmony and peace and actually resolve their historically long held differences.

[Truthseeker]

It ought to be noted that the anti-gentilism has biblical support in the Old Testament

Are you sure that doesn't refer to Idolaters?

Certainly since Muslims qualify as monotheists and a Noahide religion and as such most such things do not apply to them.

[Le Rouge]

I have also heard that some early Zionists promoted a Jewish homeland in Palestine but not a state. I've also heard some Zionists advocate a unified state of equal citizens that includes both Jews and Palestinians. Can someone confirm this?

[Eddier1]

Are you sure that doesn't refer to Idolaters?

Certainly since Muslims qualify as monotheists and a Noahide religion and as such most such things do not apply to them.

Biblical criticism, collated texts and all that, might answer your question. I only am sure that gentiles are not the "chosen people", viz.Jews, and the cup of fury applies to all gentiles and Arabs or Muslims who are not Jews, neither.

[Nets]

I have also heard that some early Zionists promoted a Jewish homeland in Palestine but not a state. I've also heard some Zionists advocate a unified state of equal citizens that includes both Jews and Palestinians. Can someone confirm this?

This is true. Just like communism, Zionism comes in many flavors. Mapam, the Zionist Socialist Party in mandatory Palestine advocated a binational state.

[Lightman]

Well, I would say that Israel makes perfect sense for zionists, as it is the Jews Biblical homeland (note: I am half-Jewish by heritage, which also means I am a citizen of Israel if I ever decide to go there). That was the Jews homeland, and it always will be, if only symbolically. It would make absolutely no sense to put the Jewish homeland anywhere else.

[Truthseeker]

Eddier1 wrote:

I only am sure that gentiles are not the "chosen people", viz.Jews, and the cup of fury applies to all gentiles and Arabs or Muslims who are not Jews, neither.

I'm quite sure that's crap.

Non-Jews can reach "the world to come" (we don't have a very developed concept of an afterlife) and be rewarded just as Jews, easier actually.

I have never heard of this cup and don't know of any serious Jewish scholar who advocated throwing it at all gentiles.

Muslims who lead moral lives (which Islam supports) are, according to Jewish tradition well withing god's good graces, unitarians too, Catholics-Orthodox-Lutheran etc. are borderline.

You are making the common mistake of confusing commandments regarding child sacrificing idolators with upright monotheistic (or perhaps even henotheistic) faiths of the modern age.