[AVT]

Some good points there Demolitionman, but I will point out that Sweden is far from homogenoous, Statistics Sweden estimates that 19.6% of the population were either born abroad or were born in Sweden to two foreign parents, that is not even factoring kids with one Swedish parent. I do not think that ethnic groups has a serious impact here because the mainstream discourse is still absolutely dominated by the white assimlated majority (not necessarily anglo-celtic).

I think we can mostly agree that the gender debate in Australia is very combative, and I think that is mainly due to our culture than anything else. Australians (like Americans) are when compared to europeans more confrontational and 'in your face' this means that the public discourse is by our nature more openly toxic. That is not to say that we are more sexist than others, rather it is more thinly veiled and open than other cultures.

I do not subscribe to the notion of 'bonganism', for the term bogan is usually used to descibe a group of lower socio-economic anglo-celtic Australians, particularly their speech and cultural mannerisms. Therefore foxdemon your take on the matter is that our culture is too heavily dominated by these lower class people, a thoroughly elitist view point.

[foxdemon]

I do not subscribe to the notion of 'bonganism', for the term bogan is usually used to descibe a group of lower socio-economic anglo-celtic Australians, particularly their speech and cultural mannerisms.

Boganism is mimicked by well off people. There is no true elite in Australia due to the upper middle class styling themselves after the bogans. Let me relate a story to make my point....

A number of years ago in Canberra there lived a man from Russia. He was a scientist of some renown, trying his luck overseas as was common amongst Russia's scientists and engineers in those days. However, this man was not happy. At work he was subject to mocking and ridicule. Australia's boganised culture accepts this treatment of our betters as normal, but it alienated this renowned scientist and he returned to Russia. In this fashion, the bogan centric culture impedes the development of a world class elite to run this country.

The lack of respect for people of compedence is not a virtue.

Therefore foxdemon your take on the matter is that our culture is too heavily dominated by these lower class people, a thoroughly elitist view point.

The middle class are boganised too. Thus it is not elitist as such. None the less, I am advocating a clearer distinction between rabble and professional, with a more becoming cultural style for our elites.

[AVT]

Boganism is mimicked by well off people. There is no true elite in Australia due to the upper middle class styling themselves after the bogans. Let me relate a story to make my point....

A number of years ago in Canberra there lived a man from Russia. He was a scientist of some renown, trying his luck overseas as was common amongst Russia's scientists and engineers in those days. However, this man was not happy. At work he was subject to mocking and ridicule. Australia's boganised culture accepts this treatment of our betters as normal, but it alienated this renowned scientist and he returned to Russia. In this fashion, the bogan centric culture impedes the development of a world class elite to run this country.

The lack of respect for people of compedence is not a virtue.


The middle class are boganised too. Thus it is not elitist as such. None the less, I am advocating a clearer distinction between rabble and professional, with a more becoming cultural style for our elites.

There is a distinct upper class and 'elite' in Australia just like anywhere, its just that it is comprised of people who have mainly made wealth (or their recent ancestors have) themselves rather than aristocratic left-overs.

[GandalfTheGrey]

hmmm I find this notion of a uniquely Australian "bogan" upper-middle class that goes around making fun of anyone who has any sort of intellectual worth pretty fantastic.

All societies have larrikens and uncouths amongst the upper-middle classes - Australia is not unique

[Bounce]

[youtube]bpUUt2QpacU[/youtube]

On bogan accents ...

I would limit 'bogan' to an economic sphere.