[AVT]

This is a bit of a non-issue to me, Jones caters to an audience, it seems a sizeable one at that, him and others like him would not exist if there wasn't a niche to fill. It is not my cup of tea so I don't listen to those programmes, but if people want to listen to sensationalist crap all day long who am I to censor them? These comments were repulsive to a majority of people (even probably a significant portion of his core listeners) but he has had to answer for them and has lost credibility and sponsors so story over.

Some of the moral outrage shown by others is highly hypocritical.

[GandalfTheGrey]

^ one of the main problems is that politicians from both sides continue to appear on his show. This is at least a tacit endorsement of him from our elected representatives, and arguably, for all the outrageous things he says.

[colliric]

^ one of the main problems is that politicians from both sides continue to appear on his show. This is at least a tacit endorsement of him from our elected representatives, and arguably, for all the outrageous things he says.

Politicians from both sides also appear on the ABC... That doesn't have any bearing on weather or not they're endorsing the channel. Even Paul Keating use to appear on ABC, and he hated the channel. Both sides also appear on Neil Mitchell and Derryn Hinch's programs too, does that mean they endorse them and their views? NO.

Edit: Although I actually agree with your Mod notes Gandalf, I also find it pretty funny that it was quite convenient for you to delete it. After all you DID type that you know, and made a big thing about it!

[Swagman]

Jones might speak anti-PC stuff from time to time but this holier than thou face book / media hate campaign against him is over the top. He's dead right describing it as cyber bullying. It's actually much worse than anything he has ever said or could say as an individual.

80,000 people signed a petition to get him sacked for speaking his mind at a private function and then intimidating his sponsors? This is serious stuff. Borders on nazism. Another 'Kristallnacht'.

[pugsville]

But swagman it was a LIE. It simply isnt true, IT was pure abuse. He might not like Gillard or her policies but how about he actually talks about issues. It was extreme emotive language without any substance whatsoever designed to whip up hate for Gillard as a person. It's not opinion, he knows it is not true.

Nazisim is beating people up and stirring up hate. Saying the broardcasters should be held to some standards isnt hate or Nazism.

[colliric]

But swagman it was a LIE. It simply isnt true, IT was pure abuse. He might not like Gillard or her policies but how about he actually talks about issues. It was extreme emotive language without any substance whatsoever designed to whip up hate for Gillard as a person. It's not opinion, he knows it is not true.

Nazisim is beating people up and stirring up hate. Saying the broardcasters should be held to some standards isnt hate or Nazism.

Hitler was elected, so no that's not what got the Nazi party in power. Saying the rich(later specifically rich Jewish people) caused Germany's then economic woes(including The Great War, as it was called back then) and should "be held to account" for it is what got the Nazi party the majority of the vote.

That's why it's formally called The National Socalist Party.

[pugsville]

The Nazis didnt get the majority of the vote and were only able to get the majority they wanted by removing legally elected representatives through force. Hitler became chancellor through a backroom deal. The Nazi's were funded by big business. Street violence was principal activity of the Nazis. Repression and elimination of workers organizations and parties was quickly followed the Nazi's coming to power.

[colliric]

The Nazis didnt get the majority of the vote and were only able to get the majority they wanted by removing legally elected representatives through force. Hitler became chancellor through a backroom deal. The Nazi's were funded by big business. Street violence was principal activity of the Nazis. Repression and elimination of workers organizations and parties was quickly followed the Nazi's coming to power.

Nevertheless they won the original election, despite not winning a clear majority until the next election.

[pugsville]

Being the biggest party does not mean "winning" and forming government, when the party is well short of majority. The word socialist in the party title does not make the party socialist, as the word democratic in a nations name does not make it democratic. There were socialist elements in Nazi rhetoric and propaganda, but that does not make it socialist. The Nazis were clearly favouring and funded by Big Business the propaganda mainly concerned international banker or profiteers and rackets.

They didnt win a clear majority in the next election despite using widespread violence.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Politicians from both sides also appear on the ABC... That doesn't have any bearing on weather or not they're endorsing the channel. Even Paul Keating use to appear on ABC, and he hated the channel. Both sides also appear on Neil Mitchell and Derryn Hinch's programs too, does that mean they endorse them and their views? NO.

Well it kind of does. Though legitimise might be a better word than endorse. The point about politicians appearing on Alan Jones - or any interviewer for that matter - is that they only do it to promote their political agenda. It becomes an ethical issue of whether politicians should be using such a person as a political tool. Interviews of high profile politicians undoubtedly contribute to high ratings for Jones, which in turn keeps the loyalty of his sponsors, which keeps him on the air - which allows him to continue his racist and misogynist commentary.

Edit: Although I actually agree with your Mod notes Gandalf, I also find it pretty funny that it was quite convenient for you to delete it. After all you DID type that you know, and made a big thing about it!

So start a thread about it - stop derailing this thread.

Jones might speak anti-PC stuff from time to time but this holier than thou face book / media hate campaign against him is over the top. He's dead right describing it as cyber bullying.

Has anyone actually seen what this bullying amounts to - if anything? or are we just taking Jones's word for it? And do you have an opinion on the threats of violence towards the anti-Jones facebook group?

It's actually much worse than anything he has ever said or could say as an individual.

worse than describing the Lebanese muslim community as "vermin" and promoting a text message calling for an anti-Lebanese riot - which followed soon after?

80,000 people signed a petition to get him sacked for speaking his mind at a private function and then intimidating his sponsors? This is serious stuff. Borders on nazism. Another 'Kristallnacht'

oh God you're actually serious. Jews being bashed in the streets and their businesses vandalised is comparable to people signing a petition against the actions of a pompous millionaire troll. And all the while you don't even have a damn clue what, if anything this "intimidation" amounted to. You've reached a new low swag - and thats really saying something.

[Swagman]

But swagman it was a LIE. It simply isnt true, IT was pure abuse. He might not like Gillard or her policies but how about he actually talks about issues. It was extreme emotive language without any substance whatsoever designed to whip up hate for Gillard as a person. It's not opinion, he knows it is not true.

A lie? It was a turn of phrase. No one can die of shame. It's impossible.

Saying "there will be no carbon tax under the Government I lead" then introducing one, is a much more accurate example of a lie.

[unbalanced zealot]

From a purely political point of view, regardless of anyone's party affiliation or disposition towards Jones as an individual, do most people agree that he's not only trashed his own personal brand to some extent but he's also made it difficult for the Coalition attack the ALP using the same modus operandi they've relied upon to date? It feels a little bit like when sentiment turns in the financial markets ... perhaps the public mood has shifted after this stunt/event/saga.

If this was a football (soccer) match it's like Alan Jones, usually being a semi-effective striker for the Coalition, who also lays off passes for Tony et al to have shots at goal with, for some reason has rushed madly into the penalty area and kicked Julia Gillard off-ball for no reason right in front of the Ref. Not only has he given away a penalty in a high stakes game, instead of showing contrition he's then gone up and abused the referee ensuring a red card for himself and his team.

Not very astute.

A lie? It was a turn of phrase. No one can die of shame. It's impossible.

Only on PoFo can this happen. There are many past members who are no longer with us ...

[GandalfTheGrey]

Thats all well and good in theory uz - the problem is that Jones, like most trolls, attracts a lot of protest by well intentioned people who should just ignore him. Unfortunately, these protests create a rallying point for the righteously indignant anti-PC brigade - who basically define themselves through victimhood. You see these poor persecuted upper-middle class liberal voters are under siege from these "facebook loonies" - who relentlessly attack brave martyrs of free speech like Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt. So really, no matter how much of a troll Jones becomes, and regardless of how outrageous is the content of his comments, he can always be made a martyr when he is attacked by the left and the so called PC police.

[colliric]

From a purely political point of view, regardless of anyone's party affiliation or disposition towards Jones as an individual, do most people agree that he's not only trashed his own personal brand to some extent but he's also made it difficult for the Coalition attack the ALP using the same modus operandi they've relied upon to date? It feels a little bit like when sentiment turns in the financial markets ... perhaps the public mood has shifted after this stunt/event/saga.

If this was a football (soccer) match it's like Alan Jones, usually being a semi-effective striker for the Coalition, who also lays off passes for Tony et al to have shots at goal with, for some reason has rushed madly into the penalty area and kicked Julia Gillard off-ball for no reason right in front of the Ref. Not only has he given away a penalty in a high stakes game, instead of showing contrition he's then gone up and abused the referee ensuring a red card for himself and his team.

Well her star Goal Keeper, lured from the opposition, just got himself a red card too and walked off(without bothering to talk to the ump at all) calling the female crowd members all "Ignorant Botches", amoungst other terrible language!

Her star wingwoman, Roxon, has been already warned for interferring in the incident.

Alan Jones and his captain are now free to kick as many goals as they wish, even if they are a midfielder down themselves.

[unbalanced zealot]

Thats all well and good in theory uz - the problem is that Jones, like most trolls, attracts a lot of protest by well intentioned people who should just ignore him. Unfortunately, these protests create a rallying point for the righteously indignant anti-PC brigade - who basically define themselves through victimhood. You see these poor persecuted upper-middle class liberal voters are under siege from these "facebook loonies" - who relentlessly attack brave martyrs of free speech like Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt. So really, no matter how much of a troll Jones becomes, and regardless of how outrageous is the content of his comments, he can always be made a martyr when he is attacked by the left and the so called PC police.

I maybe perhaps detect a touch of sarcasm here ... but none the less ... you said yourself the critical mass of Jones' constituency is literally dying down year to year. I read some article somewhere that argued that due to this shrinking of his numbers - people, politicians in particular, aren't scared of his influence as much as in the past and on this basis will decide not to kiss and make up this time around. The ALP seems to be going in for the kill right now. Not wanting to compare Jones to someone like famed terror zealot Zarqawi, but I will for the sake of it, and say that altho he became a bit of a martyr victim in the end, he got killed off when he was weakened, and the world is a better place. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part seeing the terminal decline of the bloke on the horizon.

[colliric]

Going in for the kill

?

Did you see my previous post?
Lateline tonight summed it up pretty good.... They're fucked, in a few small hours they undid all the "postive press" from the Jones incident by taking a shotgun with the name "Slipper" on it, and proceeding to shoot their own foot off. If they moving in for the kill against anyone, it's themselves!!

The Lateline interview was pretty much "your fucked now aren't you?" "Yes, But I wouldn't put it exactly in those words"...

When the ABC is openly pointing out how stuffed Labor is, you know they won't win the next election...

And Lindsay Tanner himself was saying Labor was stuffed on Q & A the other night too, even before the shit hit the fan!

[GandalfTheGrey]

you said yourself the critical mass of Jones' constituency is literally dying down year to year.

It is. But my point is that the outcry we are seeing from the righteous victims is not a rallying to Jones's defence per se, Jones merely becomes a symbol for the usual, wider grievance against what they see as the assault on free speech and the rampage by the latte sipping PC brigade. Jones is merely a useful tool to articulate this grievance - and most of the righteous victims probably wouldn't listen to, or particularly like Jones himself.

And once again swag, can you describe to me exactly what the nature of this alleged intimidation campaign against Jones's sponsors was? - I mean you must know - it is after all, in your words, far worse than anything Jones ever said, and equivalent to nazism and 'Kristallnacht'. It must be pretty bad - surely your not just basing this entirely on the vague passing comments of Jones himself right?

[colliric]

Here's a great article about this stupid Facebook lunacy:
http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opi ... 6490924787

Found this comment(which would get me banned on this site if it was mine, and uncensored) on Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, which I stumbled across while looking for stuff on Jones:

If he's so smart why does he think his a** is a v*****?

Amoungst other racist comments about Irish ex-pats.

[Swagman]

From a purely political point of view, regardless of anyone's party affiliation or disposition towards Jones as an individual, do most people agree that he's not only trashed his own personal brand to some extent but he's also made it difficult for the Coalition attack the ALP using the same modus operandi they've relied upon to date? It feels a little bit like when sentiment turns in the financial markets ... perhaps the public mood has shifted after this stunt/event/saga.

Not at all.

Jones' (socalled) brand feeds on this stuff.

The successful individual, alone and being howled down by the jealous, cyber bullying rentacrowd.

If this was a football (soccer) match it's like Alan Jones, usually being a semi-effective striker for the Coalition, who also lays off passes for Tony et al to have shots at goal with, for some reason has rushed madly into the penalty area and kicked Julia Gillard off-ball for no reason right in front of the Ref. Not only has he given away a penalty in a high stakes game, instead of showing contrition he's then gone up and abused the referee ensuring a red card for himself and his team.

Not very astute.

'Soccer' is a good analogy UZ.

Coalition up 3 Zip, 5 minutes to go and the 'Holier than thou PC brigade' has taken a massive dive to try and win a sympathy penalty in a vain attempt to get 'most people' to forget the lies and incompetence of their team's performance to date......only to get a yellow card for play acting..............

[colliric]

And Swag, What transpired yesterday was the AFL equivalent of proceeding to insult the opposition and having the umpire reverse the decision and give the other side(his old side,the one he betrayed in search of a cheap premiership) a 50meter penalty too... Or the Soccer equilivelent of the Goalie getting a red card, which results in the Goal mouth being indefensible for the rest of the game.

By that I mean that a player on field has to take the Goal position, or if there's still a substitute, one of the field players comes off and the backup goalie goes on. Either way the team is practically fucked...