[HoniSoit]

While we are having this conversation:

'I feel so embarrassed and humiliated': Korean attack victim accuses police

November 28, 2012

“They lied to me. At first they said the attackers were under investigation. Later they said they didn't know who some of them were."

A South Korean student whose finger was chopped off has spoken of his frustration with a police investigation into the incident.

Mr Chang blacked out during the attack and was taken to hospital, where his little finger was reattached.

Mr Chang, who is keeping his identity concealed, and a friend were attacked by a group of teenagers while sitting in Box Hill Gardens in Melbourne at night in September.

Chang is a Korean student who had his little finger amputated and arm damaged in an assault , he is pictured at Box Hill Hospital - to go with Jared Lynch story Tuesday the 27th of November 2012 Photo Pat Scala The Age

The attackers severed his left little finger and broke his arm. Mr Chang, who has worked as a designer and is left-handed, fears the injury will affect his ability to work in future.

“I feel so embarrassed and humiliated,” the TAFE Box Hill Institute student, 33, said. “I don't want to go outside alone. I haven't even told my family about what happened. They don't know.”

Over the past two months two other Korean nationals, a 33-year-old Sydney man and a 27-year-old man from Brisbane, have also been attacked, fuelling outrage in South Korea, with media reports questioning whether Australia is a safe place to visit.

Two weeks ago, French woman Fanny Desaintjores was threatened by passengers on a Melbourne bus for singing French songs. One man said “speak English or die”, while another commuter shouted: “I'll f---ing boxcutter you right now, dog.”

Victoria Police is continuing its investigations into the assault against Mr Chang after the South Korean government requested they conduct a "more thorough and fair investigation", capture the perpetrators and compensate the victim.

The Foreign Ministry of South Korea also demanded Australia "come up with measures to prevent future incidents", the Korean broadcaster KBS reported.

Mr Chang, from Seoul, still believes Australia is a “safe and good country”, acknowledging every country has its share of offenders. But he said he was “unhappy” about the ongoing police investigation.

A spokesman from the Korean Consulate in Melbourne told Fairfax Media they formally requested Victoria Police to “carry out a thorough investigation that will also eliminate perceptions of unfairness and inadequacy from the victim and Korean public”.

Mr Chang had declared he was told by police he was responsible for the brutal attack because he “was in the wrong place at the wrong hours”, sparking alarm in Korea.

But the spokesman said that while police eventually apologised for the remark to Mr Chang, he may have “misunderstood the intention behind it, taken in the wrong way due to cultural differences”.

The Korean newspaper Chosun Ilbo reported Mr Chang was approached by a group of teenagers who asked for a cigarette. When he refused, they assaulted him while shouting the words "f---ing Chinese".

Mr Chang blacked out during the attack and was taken to hospital, where his little finger was reattached.

Victoria Police has told Fairfax Media a 14-year-old boy from Doncaster, Melbourne, was charged the day after the assault.

Mr Chang is now seeking compensation through the Victims of Crime Assistance Tribunal.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade on Monday night said it was aware of the media reports of assaults against Korean nationals in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane.

"The Australian Government and Australian state and territory police forces take very seriously any allegations of racially-motivated crime," the spokeswoman said.

"Regrettably, crimes occur in Australia as they do in all countries, and it is important to be very careful in reaching conclusions that they are racially motivated."

http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-feel-s ... 2aczj.html

Assaults on Koreans 'not racially motivated'

November 28, 2012 - 6:34PM

Police have insisted three attacks on Korean nationals in Brisbane's south were not racially motivated as foreign news reports question the safety of Asian students in Australia.

The statement came the day after a Korean woman was allegedly assaulted on the Gold Coast.

The 28-year-old woman was allegedly approached from behind by a 17-year-old girl and an unidentified man on Nerang Road in Southport about 9.45pm on Tuesday.

When the Korean woman turned around, the teenager allegedly punched her in the face.

The teenager allegedly continued striking the woman in the face as she tried to call for help on her mobile phone that was eventually pried from her hands by the man.

The victim fought back and managed to get her mobile phone, before a nearby road worker saw the incident and intervened.

He made a citizen's arrest, apprehending the 17-year-old girl until police arrived.

The teenager from Ashmore was charged and faced Southport Magistrates Court today.

Brisbane police insisted a string of muggings on Korean nationals in the city's south were not racially motivated.

Three Koreans have been robbed in the Sunnybank area in the past week.

One of victims, who was on a working holiday visa, told South Korea's national news agency his attackers were racially motivated.

But Detective Inspector Rod Kemp said all three victims were alone and had been picked at random.

"We do not think that it's racially motivated," he said.

"We've discussed it with that person ... and he's now aware that it wasn't racially motivated. There was nothing said of a racial nature. Again they were just after his mobile phone; it was 12.30 at night."

Inspector Kemp said all three victims had been chiefly targeted for their mobile phones.

"They were vulnerable; it was late at night and they were displaying quality iPhones, iPads and the like," he said.

"In discussing [the attacks] with the Korean people involved they said often where they come from there's thousands of people walking with them. Obviously late at night in the suburbs of Brisbane there's not people around.

"You do make yourself vulnerable if you are on your own."

Unfortunately the victims' descriptions of the attackers were vague, Inspector Kemp said.

Attacks on two other Korean nationals in Sydney and Melbourne have prompted South Korean news agencies to question whether Australia is a safe place to visit.

Korea's Yonhap News Agency has accused Australian authorities of trying to "cover up the racist crimes" in a bid to protect the country's education industry.

In September, a 33-year-old South Korean student living in Melbourne had his finger chopped off after being assaulted by a group of teenagers.

The man, known only as Mr Chang, blacked out during the attack and was taken to hospital, where his little finger was reattached.

He has told Fairfax Media he was "humiliated" by the attack and left feeling to scared to venture outside alone.

“I don't want to go outside alone. I haven't even told my family about what happened. They don't know," he said.

Two weeks ago, French woman Fanny Desaintjores was threatened by passengers on a Melbourne bus for singing French songs. One man said “speak English or die”.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade told Fairfax Media on Monday night it was aware of the media reports of assaults against Korean nationals in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane.

"The Australian Government and Australian state and territory police forces take very seriously any allegations of racially-motivated crime," the spokeswoman said.

"Regrettably, crimes occur in Australia as they do in all countries, and it is important to be very careful in reaching conclusions that they are racially motivated.

"http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/assaults-on-koreans-not-racially-motivated-20121128-2ae2d.html

[foxdemon]

^
On a recent visit to Indonesia, some boys stole my camera by pick pocketing. Was this racist? In a sense it was as the white fellow (me) was percieved to be rich ands thus worth robbing. Furthermore the theives would justify the crime to themselves at teaching the white fellow a lesson (I have been the butt of racist comments in SE Asia. I know this as I speak the language).

I might point out that there was no chance of police help such as the Koreans benefit from in Australia. Nor do I benefit from any support in the manner the Koreans can find support from other Koreans. It is regarded as racist to support one's own race from racist attacks if your are white.

It seems to me that the crimes described in the articles about Korean victims in Australia are very similar to the experiences of westerners in many countries around the world. However there is one difference:

Attacks on two other Korean nationals in Sydney and Melbourne have prompted South Korean news agencies to question whether Australia is a safe place to visit.

In Indoensia I am not in danger of being attacked by thugs intent on random violence. Young men don't drive past in their car and shout insults at pedestrians either. There is definately something wrong in Australian culture, but it is not racism. I dare say South Korea is much more racist than Australian society. Yet I would not be at such risk of violent crime. The problem is something other than what you think, HoniSoit.


But, before we go further, please give me your definition of racism and by what means we might measure nations against eachother to judge the degree of racism evident in them.

[HoniSoit]

So the denial continues...

"f---ing Chinese"

The police's response seems to blame the victims for it because they are either in the wrong place at the wrong time or rich and use iPhones and iPads (as if they are the only one using them in Australia) and in some way therefore they are asking for it. This is the kind of poor excuse used against female rape victims who are blamed for the way they dress.

Now, I agree that these attacks are not racially motivated in the sense that the victims are not assaulted primarily because of their ethnicity or nationality. Using this narrow definition, there is hardly any racism in the world because rarely does anyone actively seek out people of a different ethnicity or colour to attack. But there is invariably a racist undertone in a lot of these attacks. I don't hear these attackers shout "fucking rich people".

Defining racism is problematic because race is an arbitrary social construct that has no biological basis. The way we commonly discuss racism points primarily to differences in ethnicity and skin colour. Again, as I said, a lot of these attacks are not racially motivated in the narrow sense, but there is an issue of racism in the sense of holding prejudicial and malicious view of a group of people different in their ethnicity and skill colour than you.

Comparing with other countries is irrelevant.

[unbalanced zealot]

In Indoensia I am not in danger of being attacked by thugs intent on random violence. Young men don't drive past in their car and shout insults at pedestrians either. There is definately something wrong in Australian culture, but it is not racism. I dare say South Korea is much more racist than Australian society. Yet I would not be at such risk of violent crime. The problem is something other than what you think, HoniSoit

Re: Indonesia ... I agree. Except for Jakarta from my experience. Of all the big South East Asian cities I've been to, Jakarta is the only one where I have on a number of occasions found myself in a problematic situation with either pretty hardcore thug types 'insisting' on me giving them some money or people who are fully out-of-it (prob. meth) and out looking to hassle someone. Isolated incidents elsewhere, but for some reason this kind of thing arose Jakarta quite often. Hard to tell how much my race played into it (I'm 'British' white).


South Korea is very racist, in favour of people from developed countries and against people from underdeveloped countries. But like HK and Singapore, I am almost at zero risk of getting into a random fight here. Unlike say Kings Cross or somewhere out west in Sydney, where it is always a possibility regardless of race.


BTW - the attacks on Koreans in Oz is getting quite a bit of press coverage here in S Korea. Considering that education and tourism from East Asia is one of the few exports Australia has left that doesn't involve digging stuff up from the ground and shipping it (to East Asia), the lame police who couldn't do their job should be made an example of IMO. The attacks are bad enough, but having the police act the way they were reported to have acted in one of the cases is just totally fucked up.

[foxdemon]

Comparing with other countries is irrelevant.

You are arguing Australia has a problem with racism, right? Australia is a nation, right? Then we are talking about racism and nations, right? I think it is copletely relevent to concide the situation in other nations. If we don't, we are arguing with but one example. I think that distorts the picture. Indeed looking at one country in isolation is quite rediculous.

Defining racism is problematic because race is an arbitrary social construct that has no biological basis. The way we commonly discuss racism points primarily to differences in ethnicity and skin colour. Again, as I said, a lot of these attacks are not racially motivated in the narrow sense, but there is an issue of racism in the sense of holding prejudicial and malicious view of a group of people different in their ethnicity and skill colour than you.

Racism can be looked at in different ways, from a poltical point of view.

First we have the post colonial perspective, which defines racism as a white only philosophy associated with colonialism. People not from Europe cannot be racist by definition, according to this approach. However, the illogic of this definition becomes evident when we consider white people from nations that weren't involved in European colonialism. How can people from Finland be racist? Actually, the psot colonial definiton is really and attempt to legitimate the hatred toward Europeans that goes with post colonial politics. I dismiss this definition as hypocracy.


A second approach, favoured by acedemic reformers in the west, such as Jane Elliot, see racism as an abuse of power by those with authority through using their power to discriminate against those identifed as an inferior race. It is this thinking that lies behind the efforts to advance the civil rights of minorities in many wesatern nations over the last 60 years. The idea is that those with power have the most power to deny a fair opportunity in life to those who are discriminated against and thus the main effort is removing such people from power so that everyone might enjoy a chance to advance in society.


A third view could be about communal annimosity. This seems to describe well the sort of mob racism you are talking about in relation to bogans attacking Koreans in Australia, as well as much of the communial violence that occurs around the world these days. This is tribalism based on ethnic difference.




Now, in judging the degree of racism in a nation, we need to concider two angles.

1/ the degree of institutional racism, the extent to which the dominate ethnic group limits the subordinate group or groups access to power.

2/ the degree of communal animosity present.


In forming a judgement we need to recognise that communial animosity is expected to be much higher in those nations which have a high degree of diversity in ethnic composition. Korea, for example, is quite homogenious and so we would expect that communal animosity would not have much chance to occur.

We might also expect that homogenious ethnic nations to accept institutional racism as normal. This was the case in Australia in the past. But this has changed.



While we are on the subject, HoniSoit, there are those who have had to work hard and struggle against the norms to change that so that many people in Australia today can benefit from the oppuntinity to advance to a high level in society. And most of them were from the main stream ethnic group. It would be nice for you to acknowledge the efforts of those white fellas (and gals such as Jane Elliot) who have worked to combat institutional racism.


Now, what is the current level of instituional racims in Australia compared to other Asian countries?

What is the level of communal animostiy compared to other Asian countries?


With answers to these two questions, we can make a reasonable judgement as to how racist Australia is.


As to the Korean news commentary, it is itself racist. It is a mob mentality of my tribe versus your tribe, based on the concept of race.

[HoniSoit]

So now we are onto the someone-else-is-worse-than-me-so-I-am-OK strategy.

I am sorry I refused to be dragged into this irrelevance. If we are discussing rape in Australia, how relevant and useful is it to say some other country has a worse record (contemporary Asian societies, despite holding racist views, rarely express them in the form of physical assaults)? If there is a problem, recognise it; if you don't think there is, dispute it. Don't bring in irrelevant comparison, which I have seen more than enough in discussions.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Well to be fair HoniSoit, how are we to define "problem", if not through comparisons with other countries? If we don't have some sort of measure of comparison the word is just arbitrary and meaningless no?

[HoniSoit]

Well to be fair HoniSoit, how are we to define "problem", if not through comparisons with other countries? If we don't have some sort of measure of comparison the word is just arbitrary and meaningless no?

Sure, you can compare but I am not aware we have to compare to see it is a problem or to "define problem" whatever you meant by this. I don't know why it is somehow inadequate to "only" look at what is happening in Australia. We can go through the cases of attacks on Indian, Korean and Chinese nationals in recent years, which as I made clear are not primarily motivated by racism but almost all had racist overtones. And the everyday casual racism I don't even need to bring up. I am sorry I just have seen more of it.

[AVT]

The police's response seems to blame the victims for it because they are either in the wrong place at the wrong time or rich and use iPhones and iPads (as if they are the only one using them in Australia) and in some way therefore they are asking for it. This is the kind of poor excuse used against female rape victims who are blamed for the way they dress.

Now, I agree that these attacks are not racially motivated in the sense that the victims are not assaulted primarily because of their ethnicity or nationality. Using this narrow definition, there is hardly any racism in the world because rarely does anyone actively seek out people of a different ethnicity or colour to attack. But there is invariably a racist undertone in a lot of these attacks. I don't hear these attackers shout "fucking rich people".

Defining racism is problematic because race is an arbitrary social construct that has no biological basis. The way we commonly discuss racism points primarily to differences in ethnicity and skin colour. Again, as I said, a lot of these attacks are not racially motivated in the narrow sense, but there is an issue of racism in the sense of holding prejudicial and malicious view of a group of people different in their ethnicity and skill colour than you.

Comparing with other countries is irrelevant.

This actually makes me more concerned about general law and order than anything else, and I do not think you should judge the police too harshly. From their response you can see that muggings are a common occurence and locals would know how to protect themselves by avoiding certain areas at night, I believe this is probably what they were trying to relay to the individual and the language barrier didn't help. If these foriegners are students, their institution should have made sure they were informed of the risks of crime.

I accept that some robberies involve racist comments, but if their victim was a white upper class male they would still find ways to intimidate them, by calling them a 'faggot' etc. This kind of street thuggery isn't the problem, to me the more dangerous form of racism is the type that is mainstream and occurs everyday in social settings, be they lower, middle or upper class.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Sure, you can compare but I am not aware we have to compare to see it is a problem or to "define problem" whatever you meant by this.

well put it this way - do you consider racism a problem in Australia? If so, on what basis?

From my point of view the only way you can meaningfully say "Australia has a problem with racism" - is if you are measuring racism in Australia against racism in other countries.

[HoniSoit]

well put it this way - do you consider racism a problem in Australia? If so, on what basis?

From my point of view the only way you can meaningfully say "Australia has a problem with racism" - is if you are measuring racism in Australia against racism in other countries.

I added a few more sentences in my last post.

I still cannot see a good reason why you necessarily have to compare Australia with other countries to see it is a problem. I am not against comparison but I don't see it as necessary. To take an example you care about, would you agree that in order to see Israel has a problem in the way it treats Palestinians you have to compare Israel with other countries? Is it not enough to simply see what's happening in Israel as it is, that is, a brutal occupation? Is the fact that some other countries have similar or worse problems, and there are some good companies, somehow lessen the validity of recognising there is a problem with Israel?

[JRS1]

A french women sings a french song on a bus in Australia, receives some unsavory comments....and? Is that it? If I start singing on a bus in English, I will quite rightly be told; gweilo, diu lei. Big. fucking. deal.

[Gletkin]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bogan Defence League

[GandalfTheGrey]

A french women sings a french song on a bus in Australia, receives some unsavory comments....and? Is that it? If I start singing on a bus in English, I will quite rightly be told; gweilo, diu lei. Big. fucking. deal.

Threatening to "boxcutter" (ie stab to death with a boxcutting knife) and "cut [her] tits off" is a little more than receiving some "unsavory comments".

[Gletkin]

Not to mention smashing a bus window with a brick or something.

[JRS1]

Bone on. Somebody swore and threatened somebody on a bus, because she decided to "sing french at them". Sound like they were all pissed up.

Struggling to see the racism, or what relevance it has to anything.

Bogan Defence League

Actually, Im a Chav.

[ThirdTerm]

The incident is generally consistent with what I have observed in Australia and Aussies in rural areas tend to be more tolerant and folksy but metropolitan areas such as Perth and Melbourne could be dangerous for any foreign nationals to the extent that some governments issued travel warnings to Australia few years ago and travellers are strongly advised to be beware of their surroundings at all times.

[colliric]

The incident is generally consistent with what I have observed in Australia and Aussies in rural areas tend to be more tolerant and folksy but metropolitan areas such as Perth and Melbourne could be dangerous for any foreign nationals to the extent that some governments issued travel warnings to Australia few years ago and travellers are strongly advised to be beware of their surroundings at all times.

She was apparently unaware she was in fact in Frankston!

[Igor Antunov]

As a local I would advise using public transport late at night, walking the streets in the evenings, etc.

Deep down I know guns are a bad idea (it would just make things worse) but I would love to have a texan style law where a homeowner is allowed to posses a high powered rifle, and shoot to kill intruders in and around his property. My mum was assaulted in her own front-yard (the perp opened the gate went in and spat on her one night). I'm sure my dad enjoyed mangling him for 30 minutes (perp finished in hospital with no consequences to dad) but a bullet to the skull with impunity would have been infinitely more satisfying and beneficial to society as a whole.

Sadly on the broader scale gun crimes would just increase and we would have armed gangs prowling the streets instead of knife carrying spitters.

[colliric]

Not to mention our share of new Julian Knights and Martin Bryant style insane lone gunman Rambo nuts. They're alot less effective with only knives...