[AVT]

US political and economic interests are alien to ours. That trumps culture and we aren't culturally American anyway, we have a huge contingent of people from Asia and non european origin and growing.
The basis of our economic well-being is not the US or Europe. We must integrate ourselves with our neighbours bcause it is the more natural and safer stance to take, they are our growth driver, they are in our immediate proximity, we are a major regional enabler of growth through provision of resources and education.

As it stands we have both feet and one hand in asia, and one hand in the US. We risk losing an arm. Why in a million years should Australia for example intervene in a war between Japan and China or China and the US? How do we benefit from making ourselves a major target and comprehensively ending our rapid economic rise? How do we benefiting from turning what will be the defining world region of this century and beyond against us? Europe and the US are in relative decline. Time to join the highly beneficial bandwagon here at home or risk being torn to pieces and left for dead. This year Indonesia is set to surpass us economically. They will want more coal and more student places at university. We can become a hub of higher education and enlightenment. China has shown that it is willing to work with countries without forcing political change upon them by exporting its system (like the US does).

Currently we are a pathetic little stooge and it hurts us in the long run.

Not so, we do have a common interest to stop the spread of nuclear weapons, we also have a common interest to keep free movement of trade throughout the region, spread of democracy etc etc. If you think we are not culturally americanised you have your head in the sand, we have swallowed the US obsession with celebrity, fast food and hollywood hook line and sinker. My sister is a primary school teacher and she says they actually have to work with some kids who speak in an American accent because they watch so much US tv.

Our future is in Asia economically, but we are never going to become a Chinese puppet as you wish Igor, not unless you plan to import 20 million Chinese settlers.

[Igor Antunov]

I only wish to not be anybody's puppet. But I am realistic, Australia doesn't have much of a chance in that regard. It will be passed on from one master to another, as it has been since its conception. Discussing Australia politics and foreign relations is like discussing pokemon, ultimately irrelevant.

We are going to stay a puppet, and the US is simply going to pass on the reigns, whether it wants to or not. Just watch.

[Ahovking]

I only wish to not be anybody's puppet. But I am realistic, Australia doesn't have much of a chance in that regard. It will be passed on from one master to another, as it has been since its conception. Discussing Australia politics and foreign relations is like discussing pokemon, ultimately irrelevant.

We are going to stay a puppet, and the US is simply going to pass on the reigns, whether it wants to or not. Just watch.

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that look at Netherlands during the 17 and 18th century it was a small country with a small population and yet it was as powerful as France and even beated Britain in the Anglo-Dutch Wars. Small states can hold their own like Vietnam against the united states all that it takes is a statesman which Australia lacks.

The point i am making is it doesn't matter if a state is small (like Netherlands) or has a small population (like Australia and Netherlands) as long as it has a true leader (statesman) who has a vision they can become....Great powers. What we lack isn't population nor resources but real leadership, which will change in time if we are not invaded by then.

[Igor Antunov]

Netherlands during the 17 and 18th century it was a small country with a small population and yet it was as powerful as France and even beated Britain in the Anglo-Dutch Wars.

It had a larger population than spain at that time...and an enormous economy.

[Ahovking]

It had a larger population than spain at that time...and an enormous economy.

Dispite a population of only 22 million, Australia has the 12th largest economy in the world which is incredible for such a small population and in the 17 and 18th century their was only 1.9 million dutch compared to England's 9.2 million population. Im not saying we should try and become a superpower nor a great power but a power that can stand on its own and could protect our own interests.

[Igor Antunov]

It is actually 18th by more realistic measures. Thanks to our inflated dollar and sweet resource exports we are in a sort of temporary exchange rate golden age. In the next 3 decades we will sink below 20th. Presently 20% of our gdp is composed of resources sector, with all gdp growth achieved in the past 5 years in that area. i.e Asia, is solely responsible for our economic rise.

What we need is unconventional detterance. After all we don't seek power projection as some said, we seek protection. Cheaper too.

[Ahovking]

Not too long ago Australia had the 7th largest economy, in the next 3 decades we will sink below 20th.

What we need is unconventional detterance. After all we don't seek power projection as some said, we seek protection. Cheaper too.

The reason why we dropped is because of the rapid rise of nations like china and India which we wont be able to out do. And i agree with you we should be building our forces not to project power but to be able to deny the sea around Australia so nations cant get vessels anywhere near our shorelines.

[The Clockwork Rat]

What we need is unconventional detterance.

Threaten to retaliate by dropping cane toad spawn in their water supplies.

[ralfy]

Yeah, they'll just "provide" it.

[Political Interest]

It is good to have a big military. It creates a feeling of security. If your military is strong then others will be less willing to attack you. Most countries will aim for a strong military force if they can afford it. For Australia which is in a politically unstable region it is sensible to have the largest and most advanced arsenal along with a large number of soldiers. This force can be used for defending the homeland as opposed to aggressive purposes.

[The Clockwork Rat]

It makes you feel secure. For many it does not generate such feelings, and for others it generates a sense of insecurity.

[Political Interest]

It makes you feel secure. For many it does not generate such feelings, and for others it generates a sense of insecurity.

Who does it generate insecurity for?

[The Clockwork Rat]

Many on the left.

One might also argue that the predominance of discourse associating a large military with security also plays a hand in decreasing people's sense of security, i.e. they feel that because the military isn't larger that they are somehow unsafe. Therefore, by increasing the size and strength of the military they feel temporarily safer but at the same time that deep sense of insecurity keeps rising.