Do you support the creation of new states. - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14317582
His independent compatriot Rob Oakeshott has spent the last week pushing out ideas about parliamentary reform, a new politics of consensus, and Team of Rivals-style cabinet government.

Katter's contribution has been a little more out of the box. On Thursday he proposed a wholesale redrawing of Australia's state boundaries.

The plan is as follows:

Queensland gets neatly split in two, from about Rockhampton. South Queensland gets everything from Byron Bay to Bundaberg. North Queensland gets the rest, including, of course, Katter's own electorate of Kennedy.

The Northern Territory loses a fair chunk of its south to an engorged South Australia, but its western border gets pushed out all the way to the ocean, taking the Kimberley and Broome from Western Australia. The new state - it'd be a state - would be renamed North-Western Australia, leaving Australia with an embarrassingly unimaginative bunch of state names.

Katter reckons new states would allow the country to better exploit the resources of the north, to become a food bowl, and accommodate 100,000 extra people.

One of Katter's arguments for his plan is more important than it first seems. "I don't know of anywhere else in the world where people are governed by a government thousands of kilometres away," he told the Northern Territory News.

Indeed, one of the key ideas behind a federal system is that the nearer a government is to the people it governs, the more likely it will govern in their interests. The needs and desires of citizens in Victoria and the Northern Territory sharply diverge. Katter is arguing the needs of those in Coolangatta and those in Mount Isa, nearly 2,000 kilometres away, can be just as different. There is little reason to doubt it.

So when Katter talks about living in a "North Queensland paradigm" instead of an "Australia paradigm", it actually makes a bit of sense. Many in his electorate no doubt agree; Katter's two candidate preferred result was a massive 69 per cent.

Katter's antipathy towards free trade and the economic reform of the last few decades has become very well-known over the last week.

Not only can states tailor their policies to the needs of their electorate, they act as policy incubators. Policies can be tested in an individual state before being adopted elsewhere. If policies don't work, well, at least the damage is limited.

So more states, more experimentation.

But we have a habit of believing our existing political arrangements are fixed and therefore eternal. The Australian federation is only just over a century old. And while our constitution has barely changed, the Commonwealth is doing things that would have astonished its authors.

Western Australian secessionism keeps raising its head, and will likely get louder as the rest of the country tries to expropriate the gains from mining in that state.

Rob Oakeshott's proposal for "consensus" government has been given serious attention, even though the corollary to his idea - having no opposition - is patently absurd. Well, maybe it's not a bad idea if you're engaged in total war against the Hun and the Empire of Japan, but it hardly seems appropriate in 2010.

At the same time Oakeshott is calling for consensus, he's calling for the adoption of ideas from the Henry Tax Review and the Garnaut Climate Change Review. In other words, the most divisive reform proposals in the last few years.

Bob Katter's plan for new states has the opposite problem. His plan seems absurd upon first glance - the NT News titled their article about his plan as "'Cut snake' Katter eyes Top End slice".

But it makes a lot more sense than some of the other proposals being canvassed as we wait for a government to form.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/36192.html


I do support the creation of new states, it would help decentralise Australia, Our coastal cities, particularly Sydney and Melbourne, have become severely overcrowded to the stage where it is becoming increasingly more expensive to provide necessary infrastructure (roads, water and electricity, public transport). We have seen how public transport is breaking down in Sydney, for example. Overcrowding of populations is resulting in tensions between various ethnic groups, and a consequent increase in crime and the breaking down of marriage and family relationships. Ever-worsening traffic congestion on all main and through roads, both in the central business districts and suburbs, with resultant pollution of the atmosphere and detriment to the health and quality of life of citizens and their children.

decentralising Australia would also result in more prosperity for those areas as people settle and work in them. The goods and services which they would invest in and produce would enhance the quality of life of all those living in those areas. Everyone would benefit. It would not be necessary to concentrate populations in restricted areas. Australia is a spacious country; there would be room enough for everyone. Young couples with children should be offered financial incentives to move from the big cities to country towns and cities to establish homes and businesses. Widespread settlement should be encouraged and land should be freely available. People would not then be forced to live within the limits of towns and cities, and contribute to overcrowding and pollution. The more widespread the settlement of people, the purer and fresher the air and water. Those who take up land for farming in particular, especially for growing crops and rearing animals, are benefactors, enriching and fertilising the soil. They should be given generous assistance and encouragement, as already stated.
#14317593
Umm these are normal problems for most major Metropolitan areas these days.

A better idea would be to help promote other major Australian cities to take some of the immigration load off the three majors(Brisbane is the third biggie, especially considering the Gold Coast is less than 45mins away with it's alternate CBD). Perhaps more promotional investment in Perth, Adelaide and even Hobart.

In fact, that's the Achilles heal of Katter's proposal... Tasmania will remain the backwater state it currently is, and in fact he doesn't even seem to give a shit about the southern states at all(typical Queenslander!). It's not exactly like it's boundaries can be changed. Unless the proposal is for Victoria is absorb it, but even then that won't help better represent Tasmanian interests any better either. It would just help make Victoria a bigger player in east coast politics.
#14321110
I would go along with this, but why would people move from the populated areas to these new areas that are presumably very sparsely populated? I guess they could make their own tax system which might attract new industry but what would be the "financial incentives" for young families with children? Also why make what sounds like an ridiculously huge North Western territory instead of breaking them up into a number of smaller ones which could be more competitive?
#14331646
Tasmania shows that for states to compete in the current Federation they need to have a minimum population to remain viable. I do not see how breaking off very under populated areas of the country and forming new states is the answer, it will just duplicate cost by adding more government.

Yes there are regional differences, but just because a hundred thousand North Queenslanders feel they want more representation it doesn't mean they should get it.
#14378806
States are actually the problem, not the solution. Australia has too small a population to even warrant states. States government are nothing more than parasitic scum leeching off an overwhelmed Commonwealth and crying poor at every opportunity. People looking for representative government won't find it at the state level.

We deserve a Commonwealth health, education, justice and transportation system. The 30 billion dollars saved by scrapping state governments would be able to be put directly back into the budgets of shire councils with immediate benefits to all, especially those in isolated regions.

The system we have at the moment is not a true democracy. The sooner we get a referendum to abolish them the better. The states are nothing more than servants to the private sector, safe havens for third rate politicians and an irrelevant colonial after thought.
#14379215
fractalign wrote:States are actually the problem, not the solution. Australia has too small a population to even warrant states. States government are nothing more than parasitic scum leeching off an overwhelmed Commonwealth and crying poor at every opportunity.


I tend to think the opposite. The Commonwealth is the parasite. It robs some states to subsidise others. GST revenues for example and the ill conceived mining tax another.

fractalign wrote:People looking for representative government won't find it at the state level


Again the opposite. The smaller unit of Govt is closer to the individual.

fractalign wrote:We deserve a Commonwealth health, education, justice and transportation system. The 30 billion dollars saved by scrapping state governments would be able to be put directly back into the budgets of shire councils with immediate benefits to all, especially those in isolated regions.


No reason why the states couldn't manage health, education, justice and transportation systems (they do now)

fractalign wrote:The system we have at the moment is not a true democracy.


There I agree. We are an Ochlocracy

fractalign wrote: The sooner we get a referendum to abolish them the better. The states are nothing more than servants to the private sector, safe havens for third rate politicians and an irrelevant colonial after thought.


I would prefer that the States be much more autonomous myself and therefore tend to fall in with Katter's ideal.

Healthy competition between the States would be a good thing IMO. Separate tax regimes would allow the population and indeed industry and business to seek out the right place to locate. They'd soon find out that over taxing success to fund inefficiency will drive away investment and enterprise.

States like TAS would have to look after themselves instead of being massively subsidised and States like WA & QLD would not be ruled / held to ransom by political classlet senators from Tas with but a fraction of the national vote, and it would minimise the ochlocratic rule of the majority that pay the minority of tax.
#14380027
I wish I could see it that way. With the exception of Tasmania which is a separate Island and therefore a genuinely different part of Australia, the rest of the country is just artificial borders. How is there any difference ? For over a century the mainland states have fought hard to put their own selfish interests ahead of those of the nation. You only have to look at our rail system to see that. There was a time when passengers travelling from Sydney to Melbourne had to change trains at the border because neither state wanted to change its rail gauge before the other.

The states are just a colonial hangover nothing more. An example of how stupid the state system is can be found in the justice system where someone who has committed a crime in one state can flee to another where he or she is totally unknown.

I heard the story of a man who abused a young girl in Rockhampton moving to Ballarat where the Victorian police were unaware of what he did. If criminals can use differing states as safe havens then there is seriously something wrong with our justice system.

As for encouraging rivalry between the states all this does is build micro nationalism and foster hatred. I think the fact that every citizen regardless of age or social status is forced to pay ten GST to prop up these corrupt self serving institutions says a lot about the kind of nation we live in. Encouraging states to compete always ends in the blame game and resentment. Do away with them, make tasmania a semi autonomous territory and the blame game is over. Besides anyone who thinks state governments are actually accountable to their elected citizens is seriously kidding themselves.

Call me a dreamer but I see a day when all the mainland states are dissolved and all the tens of billions of dollars saved is poured directly into shire councils who in turn are able to provide the infrastructure their citizens so badly need. I am so sick of state governments playing politics by punishing one region for voting one way by with holding funding for projects. It should not matter if you vote labour or coalition, the government of the state should treat all regions equally in regards to funding. There is nothing democratic about the way state government operate, community empowerment is the only true path to democracy.
#14380084
fractalign wrote:Call me a dreamer but I see a day when all the mainland states are dissolved and all the tens of billions of dollars saved is poured directly into shire councils who in turn are able to provide the infrastructure their citizens so badly need.

But there are so many local government areas out there (140 in WA alone) that it is going to be hard to make sure these billions are divided fairly and spent appropriately.
A state government at least allows some oversight on how these funds are divided (especially in the case of road funding grants)

The myopic behaviour of a half dozen state governments is going to be much easier for the Feds to tackle then hundreds of LGs whose vision is restricted to their own little areas.
#14380560
Interesting you should mention the numbers of Local governments in WA. With trend in Vic and Qld towards shire amalgamations cutting the numbers in half and shires in NSW being threatened with same, it will only be a matter of time before the same happens in WA. Whats even more interesting is that as unpopular as these amalgamations will be, they will in fact result in more powerful local government. State government are pushing amalgamations to simplify their funding anyway but if it results in more efficient powerful local governments, it might come back to bite them in the arse.
#14380827
States should be abolished, councils need to be amalgamated. For New South Wales, we can have the following councils:
  • Sydney
  • Hunter Valley
  • Central Coast
  • Illawarra
  • New England
  • Blue Mountains
  • Bega
  • Riverina-Murray
  • Outback

They should be able to raise their own taxes (instead of relying on funding from the federal government) and fund their own projects.
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