Consultation: Omnibus Human Relief and Welfare Act / SN-RF - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By Cheesecake_Marmalade
#1908509
When "moving the game along" means "agree with me", I start to get suspicious. Part of the game is that you attempt to come into power and help your party win.
User avatar
By HoniSoit
#1908515
CM wrote:When "moving the game along" means "agree with me", I start to get suspicious. Part of the game is that you attempt to come into power and help your party win.


The point though is that you don't need to sacrifice anything for the good of the game. You only need to think strategically about future situations where your party needs the support of SN-RF MPs. You could very well vote down the confidence vote; however, we would still have 12 MPs who hold considerable sway in any future bills.
User avatar
By Cheesecake_Marmalade
#1908518
But my party is pretty far removed from the SN-RF in most respects, although admittadly there are some important similarities. It doesn't help that the SN-RF has had a history of smearing my party as fascist and racist.
User avatar
By HoniSoit
#1908522
CM wrote:But my party is pretty far removed from the SN-RF in most respects, although admittadly there are some important similarities.


Indeed, we have some similarities with your and other parties. We could work together on areas where you feel strongly about and where we have commonalities. In exchange for your support, we would support you in future bills.

CM wrote:It doesn't help that the SN-RF has had a history of smearing my party as fascist and racist.


I'm sure other parties haven't smeared the SN-RF.

There are places for political rhetoric and we have all used them. However, in politics one cannot make any decision simply based on 'who said what to whom' in the past. We need to consider each others' positions carefully, and engage in negotiates where both parties could benefit.
User avatar
By Cheesecake_Marmalade
#1908524
Indeed, we have some similarities with your and other parties. We could work together on areas where you feel strongly about and where we have commonalities. In exchange for your support, we would support you in future bills.

I understand this, but the problem is that our parties rarely ever converge, and only on cursory issues. Implementation and philosophy is another big problem.

I'm sure other parties haven't smeared the SN-RF.

There are places for political rhetoric and we have all used them. However, in politics one cannot make any decision simply based on 'who said what to whom' in the past. We need to consider each others' positions carefully, and engage in negotiates where both parties could benefit.

I agree, but don't expect the records to be expunged just because it's expedient to you. My point when I brought up the SN-RF smearing the PNL is that the SN-RF is only taking on this view of working together in hindsight, when they realize that they are the largest party and have a good chance of gaining government. You words now and your words earlier are at odds with each other, and it's hard to trust a party with such a variance and instability in tone and action.
User avatar
By HoniSoit
#1908527
CM wrote:I understand this, but the problem is that our parties rarely ever converge, and only on cursory issues. Implementation and philosophy is another big problem.


Well, if I remember correctly we have at least a number of common positions. However, even in areas where our positions do not converge we could still exchange support for each other's bills. We recognise that the PNL is a significant force in the parliament and would like to work with you.

CM wrote:I agree, but don't expect the records to be expunged just because it's expedient to you. My point when I brought up the SN-RF smearing the PNL is that the SN-RF is only taking on this view of working together in hindsight, when they realize that they are the largest party and have a good chance of gaining government. You words now and your words earlier are at odds with each other, and it's hard to trust a party with such a variance and instability in tone and action.


To be honest, I haven't smeared PNL personally (e.g. calling it racist or fascist). You could go back to older threads and try to find any example. However, I recognise members in our party have done so, but so have members in your party. My point is that we shouldn't let the rhetoric - which both of our parties have employed - to block any opportunities where we can work together. I'm sure it's not a surprise to you that charged rhetoric aside - in a parliament where no party holds the majority - political parties inevitably need to work with each other. It doesn't mean we are necessarily becoming friends but it does mean that we both need to be pragmatic (like Dave is) and work to benefit both of our parties.
User avatar
By Vera Politica
#1908600
There has been an additional revision to the Education Act. Additions from the last revision are marked in RED

Article 2: The Education Act: Freedom, Equality and Prosperity

1. Principles
A Bill To promote (1) the development of the individual's potential, (2) the creation of an informed citizenry indespensible for the optimal functioning of a democracy and (3) the production of capital necessary for economic prosperity

2. Funding
In accordance with the principles in S.1 and the duty of government to promote the principles in S.1 the government will:
a) set up a Federal Education Commitee (hereby FEC) to administer the general provisions of S.2
b) ensure the free education of all citizens, from kindergarten to first-level tertiary education. Postgraduate studies and professional studies will be funded at the university’s discretion and by the university. The number of students enrolled in any given tertiary program will still remain to the discretion of the universities in accordance with their facilities and capacities. The consequence is to make admissions more competitive but open to all. Discrimination, however, based on irrelevant criteria for admission will not be tolerated and contravenes the principles in S.1.
c) encourage development in the theoretical sciences by:
i. actively funding research in related fields
ii. Assisting PhDs in finding employment in related fields
d) protect against the flight of intellectual capital
e) administer a broad Loans and Bursaries Program to help offset living expenses among postgraduate students
f) provide physical investment in secondary education

Sections 2; c,d,e and f are subject to future public spending decisions

3. Federal Education Committee
In accordance with 2.a., the FEC will be chaired by the Minister of 'Education' and assisted by the Minister of 'Science and Technology', and 'Culture and the Arts' whose responsibilities include:
a) the general oversight of spending
b) accountability of government for the decisions of the FEC

4. Secondary Schools and Infrastructure
In accordance with the objectives set by 2.e., the FEC will be tasked with administering a 15-year term investment in the physical infrastructure of secondary schools. The government will provide (but not limit itself to) $2bn annually to the FEC to go toward:
a) modernizing educational facilities
b) revitalization projects, targeting deteriorated and/or deteriorating educational facilities
c) funding and promoting extracurricular programs

All of Section 4 is subject to future public spending decisions

5. Notes
The Bill will be hereby reffered to simply as The Education Act
The Federal Education Comitte abbr. FEC, will be overseen by the Ministry of Education.
User avatar
By Holt
#1908650
It doesn't help that the SN-RF has had a history of smearing my party as fascist and racist.

Your party's ideological progenitor is self-admittedly racist, and your party platform shares much in common with Fascism. Choose to take it as criticism or praise.
User avatar
By Dr House
#1908825
Holt wrote:Your party's ideological progenitor is self-admittedly racist

No he isn't. Dave is not racist, and he has consistently refused to clarify whether he is or not on Pofo.
User avatar
By Demosthenes
#1908849
I think the overall point on both sides is to begin to move past the name calling and pigeon holing and think more about specific legislation and how it could either work in the favor of the people you represent, or against, as your conscious dictates.

Whether or not Dave is a racist or fascist or whether or not SN-RF would, in a perfect sim disolve the entire parliament and put the lot of you to work for the first days of some of your PoFo lives, the fact remains most of that is entirely irrelevant to the actual playing of the sim itself. Neither of the above have any real bearing on playing the game and none of it means anything in game terms. Honestly, this bickering is as ANdres has correctly observed...[to paraphrase] "...It's as if some of you believe this is real..."

While I do somewhat agree with Honi, that it would be nice to just procede to the actual parliamentary part of sim, I do understand that even this still includes some level of gamesmanship, and do not personally begrudge anyone the right to jostle for position within the parliamentary hierarchy. My only concerns as a player have ever been that the jostling in and of itself becomes the end, rather than method.

It's a fine line. But, I do think simply saying "The Reds are the Devil" or "PNL are rascist pigdog capitalist elitist fascist swine with whom we can never ally even if THEY nationalize the burgeoning oil industry..." is completely counterproductive to the over all game. I certainly expect many tongue-in-cheek references that take advantage of such rhetoric for humorous, or "point-scoring" reasons, but when it starts to get taken seriously, or used as leverage to avoid the very meaningful dialogue which is really the foundation of the game, we only attain yet more paralysis. I am the last to point fingers at for anyone making fun, or sarcastically making proclamations, certainly I have "given shit" to several parties for their political alignment. Most notably the former PUC and the PoP. But that's all it was...giving them a hard time.

I don't think anyone, like Nets for instance, who genuienly seems to feel the proposed legislation is faulty, should feel compelled to vote for the motion simply for the game's sake, but those who really don't appear to wish to advance constuctive dialogue, and by extension appear to merely wish to...advance...something else, are really helping matters any.

Still...we must all play how we have fun playing, and draw that line where we feel it applies to us. I don't sense any immediate danger to the game from any discussions taking place here, though a "red flag" (no, not a SN_RF flag... ;) ) or two seem to be waving.

Perhaps were some of us to think more in terms of bargains rather than absolutes, we might move more boldly into the meat and potatoes of the game? Going beyond mere... "I hate this part" to "This part is unacceptable, perhaps in order to win my vote you'd consider changing it to 'XXX'..."
At the very least it would seem to make the game more playable, to me at least. I think it's particularly frustrating when a player come into a thread, announces all manner of evil surrounding the party presenting, points out all the flaws, then disappears into the ether without so much as checking back in several days time to ascertain any movement on the motion, or to "bargain" at all...

*Disclaimer: In this entire post I'm speaking as a fellow player, NOT as GM.
User avatar
By Dr House
#1908852
I think you're mischaracterizing us when you refer to us as "capitalist elitist fascist swine." ;)

We have the interests of the workiong class in mind just as much as the SN-RF does. Our methods just differ.

Oh, and we do intend to nationalize the oil industry.
User avatar
By Demosthenes
#1908853
Dr House wrote:I think you're mischaracterizing us when you refer to us as "capitalist elitist fascist swine."


:lol: We'll see...you roustabouts!

Dr House wrote:We have the interests of the workiong class in mind just as much as the SN-RF does. Our methods just differ.

Oh, and we do intend to nationalize the oil industry.


So then, constructively, what are your current specific objections to the bill at hand, and what would you prefer to see in their place? Bearing in mind strong support from within SN-RF exists to completely scrap the "make work", article 3 section of the bill, and replace it with some union rules and regulations? (Bearing in mind, from what we can tell, that the former tyrant had little to no use for unions of any kind).
User avatar
By ingliz
#1908863
Proposed Union bill to replace Employment legislation

The Union Recognition and Certification Act, 2009 wrote:The Ministry of Labour and Industry promotes a stable and constructive labour relations climate and fosters productive workplace relationships.

Human rights provisions, fair employment practices, equal pay and anti-discrimination laws are all embodied in this labour legislation.

Discrimination by race, religion, colour, creed, sex, age or other factors is prohibited. All jurisdictions are to require employers to pay men and women equally for the same work.

Section 1 - Right to Belong to a Union

"an individual unorganized worker is commonly helpless to exercise actual liberty,"

(a) employees are permitted to join unions for the purpose of bargaining collectively with their employers on issues concerning wage rates, fringe benefits and other working conditions.

(b) Labour codes in all jurisdictions guarantee the right to representation by a trade union following a certification process outlined in legislation.

Section 2 - Union Certification

(a) The Union submits an Application for Certification to the PoFo Labour Board. If, as at the date of application, 40% or more of employees support the Union, the Board shall order a vote. If 65% or more sign a union card the Board will automatically certify the bargaining unit.

If a vote is ordered and If more than 50% of the votes are in favour of having a union, The Board will certify the Union.


(b) Employers' Rights - It is an unfair labour practice for Employers to attempt to interfere with the formation or selection of a Union. However, Employers or managers are permitted to communicate statements of fact or opinions reasonably held with respect to the Employers business. On the day of the vote, neither the Union nor the Employer may, at the workplace or polling place distribute printed material or engage in electioneering for the purposes of influencing the vote.

(c) Once certified a Union becomes the exclusive bargaining agent for all of the employees in the bargaining unit whether they are members of the Union or not. The Employer cannot settle wages and working conditions directly with the employees. The employer is required to negotiate only with the Union which has been certified and no other one. After certification a Union can, by notice, compel an Employer to meet and bargain a collective agreement.

(d) Derecogition

Mirror image of recognition

(f) In the interests of stability an agreement lasts a minimum of 12 months unless the union can be shown to have used unfair labour practices

(g) Unfair labour practices:

Coerce people to become union members;

Use threats, intimidation, or violence;

Force an employer to punish a worker because he/she doesn't get along with the union;

Charge excessive union dues;

Refuse to bargain in good faith with the employer.


(h) Firms who employ fewer than 21 employees (taking into account employees in associated companies) are excluded from the legislation

(k) Employees have a right not to join the union.
Last edited by ingliz on 17 May 2009 20:29, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Demosthenes
#1908867
And, the revised entire bill, as it currently exists in the official SN-RF thread:

The updated Bill, with the "make work" section scrapped, per discussion, and the union recognition added. Also includes the most revised version of the education bill.

    SN-RF wrote:
    The people of PoFo, exercising their powers of creation and, in following the historic
    examples set out by those perched on the precipice of history, and the heroism and sacrifice
    of our ancestors, and the forerunners and founders of a free and sovereign nation; to the
    supreme end of reshaping the Republic to establish a democratic, participatory, and self-
    reliant, multiethnic and multicultural society in a just, federal and decentralized State
    that embodies the values of freedom, independence, peace, solidarity, the common good, the
    nation's territorial integrity, community and the rule of law for this and future
    generations; guarantees the right to life, work, learning, education, social justice and
    equality, without discrimination or subordination of any kind; promotes peaceful cooperation
    among nations and furthers and strengthens the integration of PoFo with the world at large in
    accordance with the principle of nonintervention and national self-determination of the
    people, the universal and indivisible guarantee of human rights, the democratization of
    imitational society, nuclear disarmament, ecological balance and environmental resources as
    the common and inalienable heritage of humanity; exercising their innate power through their
    representatives comprising the National Parliament, by their freely cast vote and in a
    democratic Referendum, hereby ordain the following:

    Omnibus Human Relief and Welfare Act.

    We, the SN-RF, believe that - at a minimum - every citizen is entitled to the fullest
    opportunity his life can bring him or her. We feel that as a result of this no citizen should
    fail to prosper as a result of the knowledge gained for all people, to be utilized to better
    all people. Therefore essential services like healthcare, education and (e.g.) employment
    should not be withheld by a state with ample revenue to ensure these services.
    These services are so vitally important for the people's self-realization, that their
    provision cannot simply be left to chance. As such, the state, in democratic partnership with
    local communities and various organisations must erect a framework for the universal
    provision of these social goods. This means that all citizens are entitled to the most
    advanced healthcare the nation can provide its citizens, the highest level of education that
    an individual can attain, and employment through either public or private organizations.
    These essential services are rendered at national cost through the processes we have outlined
    below.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 1: Principle of National Healthcare Act

    1. Principle
    i. Bill to promote the health and well-being of the individual by the creation of a uniform
    standard health care plan, paid and administered through taxation of a single payer nature.

    A. Funding
    In accordance with the principles in S.1 it is the duty of government to promote the
    principles in S.1 the government will:
    1) Ensure that all citizens receive healthcare as a result of this provision.
    2) Encourage developement of advanced medical practices by subsidizing research and
    development of those sciences like biology, human genome, and any other field directly
    related to medical research.
    3) Citizens retain the option to receive healthcare on their own terms through private
    sources or other foreign sources, but remain subject to the same taxation as any other
    citizen not seeking private care.
    4) Ensure that those injured or disabled by disease or injury retain the rights to their
    employment and retain a pension during this time of disablity equaling three quarters of
    their normal rate of pay.

    B. Notes
    The Bill will be hereby reffered to simply as the Healthcare Act.
    The Federal Health and Human Welfare Committee abbr. FHHW and will administered by the
    Minister of Health.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 2: The Education Act: Freedom, Equality and Prosperity

    1. Principles
    A Bill To promote (1) the development of the individual's potential, (2) the creation of an informed citizenry indespensible for the optimal functioning of a democracy and (3) the production of capital necessary for economic prosperity

    2. Funding
    In accordance with the principles in S.1 and the duty of government to promote the principles in S.1 the government will:
    a) set up a Federal Education Commitee (hereby FEC) to administer the general provisions of S.2
    b) ensure the free education of all citizens, from kindergarten to first-level tertiary education. Postgraduate studies and professional studies will be funded at the university’s discretion and by the university. The number of students enrolled in any given tertiary program will still remain to the discretion of the universities in accordance with their facilities and capacities. The consequence is to make admissions more competitive but open to all. Discrimination, however, based on irrelevant criteria for admission will not be tolerated and contravenes the principles in S.1.
    c) encourage development in the theoretical sciences by:
    i. actively funding research in related fields
    ii. Assisting PhDs in finding employment in related fields
    d) protect against the flight of intellectual capital
    e) administer a broad Loans and Bursaries Program to help offset living expenses among postgraduate students
    f) provide physical investment in secondary education

    Sections 2; c,d,e and f are subject to future public spending decisions

    3. Federal Education Committee
    In accordance with 2.a., the FEC will be chaired by the Minister of 'Education' and assisted by the Minister of 'Science and Technology', and 'Culture and the Arts' whose responsibilities include:
    a) the general oversight of spending
    b) accountability of government for the decisions of the FEC

    4. Secondary Schools and Infrastructure
    In accordance with the objectives set by 2.e., the FEC will be tasked with administering a 15-year term investment in the physical infrastructure of secondary schools. The government will provide (but not limit itself to) $2bn annually to the FEC to go toward:
    a) modernizing educational facilities
    b) revitalization projects, targeting deteriorated and/or deteriorating educational facilities
    c) funding and promoting extracurricular programs

    All of Section 4 is subject to future public spending decisions

    5. Notes
    The Bill will be hereby reffered to simply as The Education Act
    The Federal Education Comitte abbr. FEC, will be overseen by the Ministry of Education.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 3: The Union Recognition and Certification Act.

    Union Recognition and Certification Proceedure, Regulation MLI01,2009


    The Ministry of Labour and Industry promotes a stable and constructive labour relations climate and fosters productive workplace relationships.
    Human rights provisions, fair employment practices, equal pay and anti-discrimination laws are all embodied in this labour legislation.
    Discrimination by race, religion, colour, creed, sex, age or other factors is prohibited. All jurisdictions are to require employers to pay men and women equally for the same work.

    Section 1 - Right to Belong to a Union

    "an individual unorganized worker is commonly helpless to exercise actual liberty,"

    (a) Pofoese employees are permitted to join unions for the purpose of bargaining collectively with their employers on issues concerning wage rates, fringe benefits and other working conditions.
    (b) Labour codes in all jurisdictions guarantee the right to representation by a trade union following a certification process outlined in legislation.

    Section 2 - Union Certification

    (a) The Union submits an Application for Certification to the PoFo Labour Board. If, as at the date of application, 40% or more of employees support the Union, the Board shall order a vote. If 65% or more sign a union card the Board will automatically certify the bargaining unit.

    i. If a vote is ordered and If more than 50% of the votes are in favour of having a union, The Board will certify the Union.

    (b) Employers' Rights - It is an unfair labour practice for Employers to attempt to interfere with the formation or selection of a Union. However, Employers or managers are permitted to communicate statements of fact or opinions reasonably held with respect to the Employers business. On the day of the vote, neither the Union nor the Employer may, at the workplace or polling place distribute printed material or engage in electioneering for the purposes of influencing the vote.
    (c) Once certified a Union becomes the exclusive bargaining agent for all of the employees in the bargaining unit whether they are members of the Union or not. The Employer cannot settle wages and working conditions directly with the employees. The employer is required to negotiate only with the Union which has been certified and no other one. After certification a Union can, by notice, compel an Employer to meet and bargain a collective agreement.
    (d) Derecogition

    Mirror image of recognition

    (f) In the interests of stability an agreement lasts a minimum of 12 months unless the union can be shown to have used unfair labour practices
    (g) Unfair labour practices:

    i. Coerce people to become union members;
    ii. Use threats, intimidation, or violence;
    iii. Force an employer to punish a worker because he/she doesn't get along with the union;
    iv. Charge excessive union dues;
    v. Refuse to bargain in good faith with the employer.

    (h) Firms who employ fewer than 21 employees (taking into account employees in associated companies) are excluded from the legislation
    (k) Employees have a right not to join the union.

    Union Recognition and Certification Proceedure, Regulation MLI01,2009

    The Ministry of Labour and Industry promotes a stable and constructive labour relations climate and fosters productive workplace relationships.
    Human rights provisions, fair employment practices, equal pay and anti-discrimination laws are all embodied in this labour legislation.
    Discrimination by race, religion, colour, creed, sex, age or other factors is prohibited. All jurisdictions are to require employers to pay men and women equally for the same work.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
User avatar
By FallenRaptor
#1908869
For the record, I have refered to all of the parties besides the THP(although I might as well do so) and my own as "fascist". It's obviously not personal, so no hard feelings? :)
User avatar
By Dr House
#1908889
From Article 1:

3) Citizens retain the option to receive healthcare on their own terms through private
sources or other foreign sources, but remain subject to the same taxation as any other
citizen not seeking private care.

I would prefer that people's private care be tax-deductible, up to a cap at least (say, 5% of income perhaps). Additionally I would like citizens to be required to contribute to a mandatory, tax-free health savings account.

4) Ensure that those injured or disabled by disease or injury retain the rights to their
employment and retain a pension during this time of disablity equaling three quarters of
their normal rate of pay.

I object to employers being obligated to pay a pension, under any circumstances. Instead I would recommend disability benefits for any person that is unable to work due to disability or disease. Three quarters of pay isn't bad, but I would prefer that that provision be suspended pending further investigation into its costs and the state of the government's current finances. Meanwhile I wouldn't object to said individuals being paid disability benefits equal to their full pay or 200% of the poverty line, whichever is lower.

From Article 2:

I don't object in any way whatsoever to free universal education, but tertiary education should only be free to those pursuing a math, science or professional degree.

From Article 3:

i. To promote the abundance of labor throughout the nation by the creation of a national
workforce consisting of four paid service sectors, who in turn shall ultimately answer to
various ministers within the government. Should any citizen find themselves without the means
of proper private employment they may elect at any time enlist for a term of service in one
of the four sectors listed below, where they shall recieve a fair and equal wage to
comparable work available in the private sector. They may join any branch they choose, and
may receive consideration for valid work experience gained through education, work history,
and in some cases, informal knowledge. Each branch shall be answerable to it's appropriate minister.

A. Military. (Defense)
B. Domestic, non-Military. (Interior)
C. Foreign, Non-Military. (Foreign)
D. Research, Scientific. (Science)

This is unacceptable, but that doesn't mean guaranteed employment is. I support the government investing in all four of these areas, which will obviously create demand for employment, but they are too important to be grounds for make-work. The government should hire the most qualified for employment in infrastructure and research projects and the military, nopt whoever happens to be unable to find work at the time.

Make work should consist of unskilled tasks in community projects and light industry (where it does no compete with the private sector), for which the person is to be paid a sum equal to the poverty line.

ii.- Unions:
Every working citizen has the right to join a union without duress and may not be refused
admittance based on age, sexual orientation, private records, etc. Union employes may not be
fired simply for being members.

iii. Minimum Wage. It shall be the responisbility of all private and government employers to
pay an equitable wage that shall constitute "X", [where X shall = a fixed percentage,
considered the minimum necessary for a living wage.]

This I have no objections to. In fact, I would recommend a few additions to the right to unionize section, proposed by Dave for our own party platform:

All firms over a certain size (>500 employees?) are required to have a union, which should be a company/yellow union:
*Collective bargaining agreements with work rules are to be illegal
*Codetermination, union representatives should be on the corporate board. Similarly, management representatives should be on the union board
*The union focuses on improving wages, benefits, and productivity
*Workers who have held their job for two years are entitled to two week's notice before job termination
*Workers who have held their job for five or more years are entitled to one month's notice
*Workers who have held their job for ten or more years are entitled to three month's notice
*Firms are required to have workman's compensation insurance
*Strikes and lockouts are illegal
*The union and company may negotiate any rules they like which do not violate the above rules

All workers should also belong to a guild for their type of profession (where none exists there can be some kind of general guild). The guild serves as a clearing house to find workers new jobs or retraining, and also engages in research to improve the productivity of these workers. Funding for the guild should come 50% from the workers and 50% from the state.

However, I temporarily object to the whole thing except for the union laws on the grounds that current government finances may not be able support it. I would move to first do a damage assessment of the treasury funds, then nationalize oil production to secure revenues, then implement this along with an industrial policy.

Meanwhile, the collective bargaining section of this legislation has my support. :up:

FallenRaptor wrote:For the record, I have refered to all of the parties besides the THP(although I might as well do so) and my own as "fascist". It's obviously not personal, so no hard feelings? :)

No hard feelings. :)
User avatar
By HoniSoit
#1908999
OK. I think now we all agree we shouldn't turn this into a debate about race and racism and go beyond name-calling.

Back to the document. We don't have too much time left. So any concern about the document should be expressed as early as possible before we finalise it for the confidence vote.
User avatar
By Demosthenes
#1909020
However, I temporarily object to the whole thing except for the union laws on the grounds that current government finances may not be able support it. I would move to first do a damage assessment of the treasury funds, then nationalize oil production to secure revenues, then implement this along with an industrial policy.


Excellent House, this type of critisism shall give SN-RF memberrs food for thought, and should help provide the basis for cooperation, should SN-RF proove receptive to some or all of your attempted compromises. Bear in mind I am not an official negotiator in this matter, and have no power to accept or reject any suggestion, that will fall to MPs/Party Leadership. I merely act as...an ambassador.

I might note, because so many things are hinging on raw hard data that is as yet unavailiable, that SN-RF may require a one day extension to the time alloted to present legislation. Particularly considering support for the legislation seems to depend on it in many ways.

This would ostensibly extend the official presentation of the bill to Tuesday, May 19th.
User avatar
By Nets
#1909949
Sorry guys, I am in the process of moving and don't have a lot of time, but I haven't abandoned the discussion.

I'll post my responses to your responses shortly.
User avatar
By ingliz
#1910043
Changes in the Rate of Petroleum Revenue Tax, 2009 wrote:Petroleum Revenue Tax

Petroleum Revenue Tax (PRT) is administered by Pofo Revenue & Customs Large Business Service- Oil & Gas Sector (LBSOG) –formerly Oil Taxation Office or 'the OTO'. This is a tax which seeks to tax a high proportion of the economic rent (super-profits) from the exploitation of the PoFo's oil and gas. PRT is a field-based tax: in general, the costs of developing and running a field can only be set against the profits generated by that field. Any losses, eg arising from unused expenditure relief, can be carried forwards or backwards within the field indefinitely. There is also a range of reliefs, including:

•oil allowance - a PRT-free slice of production
•supplement - a proxy for interest and other financing costs
•Tariff Receipts Allowance (TRA) - participators owning assets, for example pipelines, relating to one field will sometimes allow participators from other fields to share the use of the asset in return for the payment of tariffs, and TRA relieves some of the tariffs received from PRT
•exemption from PRT for gas sold to PoFo Gas under a pre July 1975 contract
•cross-field relief for research expenditure
PRT is currently charged at 50 per cent on profits after these allowances. For a limited period safeguard relief then applies to ensure that PRT does not reduce the annual return in the early years of production of a field to below 15 per cent of the historic capital expenditure on the field.

As part of a package of PRT reforms the rate of PRT is increased from 50 per cent to 80 per cent and PRT relief for Exploration and Appraisal (E&A) expenditure is abolished.
Last edited by ingliz on 19 May 2009 09:50, edited 2 times in total.

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