[Dave]

Most people have not voted in the geography thread, and even fewer have posted in the demography thread. This urgently needs to be resolved, so I would like to know if people are basically okay with the following.

Geography
Large island in the North Atlantic, mixed terrain

Economy
Developed/industrialized

What kind of natural resources do we have? Clausewitz made reference to PoFonMobil, so does that mean we have a lot of oil and gas?

Demography
Population around 50 million (most votes were between 25-75 million IIRC, although some voted for a larger population). Note also that a population of that size would imply that we have pretty good farmland.
Relatively high inequality
Relatively large rural population (a lot of family farms?) for an industrialized country
Ethnic composition: Undecided, but based on the geography I suggest Scandinavian with important influences from the British Isles.

Is everyone basically okay with this (Suska don't reply)? If so I can write something more detailed and come up with a back story.

[Mazhi]

Ok.

And how bout we have lots of potatoes?

[Dave]

Makes sense. Perhaps we have a very prosperous agricultural sector, but are slightly underindustrialized and as such have a large number of urban poor, thereby explaining the inequality and communism?

[Zagadka]

What about population per square mile?

GDP?

Where in the NA? Straight below Greenland and Iceland?

I also suggest we have a history outline, colonization, in which period that happened, slavery...

Ethnic composition: Undecided, but based on the geography I suggest Scandinavian with important influences from the British Isles.

As I just mentioned, slavery? Potential early colonization by the Spanish? Possible early conflicting colonization with the French? Dutch? Natives?

Religious history? Being the NA, I'd guess a basic Protestant/Catholic mix.

And finally, how can we be a "developed/industrialized" nation with a mostly agrarian, high disparity society? Do we have full rail service?

[Dr House]

Potential early colonization by the Spanish?

Not at all likely. Trade winds carried Spanish vessels to the Caribbean and then down to South and Central America. There is a reason why there was never any Spanish presence anywhere in North America other than the South and the Southwest. I would say the British Empire probably colonized it and used it in the same capacity the Spanish used Puerto Rico: as the gateway to an important trade route.

[Red_Army]

Everything here sounds good as far as I'm concerned, I'll let others with more interest decide the explicit demography, geography.

[Dave]

What about population per square mile?

Fasces made some kind of fancy-pants map, so I'd like his input. I would suggest a low population density compared to Western Europe if we go with the agricultural scenario.

GDP?

If we're developed and have 50 million people, then at least $1.3 trillion but no more than $2.3 trillion.

I also suggest we have a history outline, colonization, in which period that happened, slavery...

As I just mentioned, slavery? Potential early colonization by the Spanish? Possible early conflicting colonization with the French? Dutch? Natives?

Religious history? Being the NA, I'd guess a basic Protestant/Catholic mix.

I posted this in another thread:

It looks as if we are a North Atlantic island, which would put us at the confluence of major North Atlantic trade routes. In that case, I would suggest that our country was originally settled by vikings, and that some time in the 18th century we came under the control of the British Empire due to our strategic location.

This would make our ethnic composition predominantly Scandinavian, but with strong elements from the British isles as well as a few Huguenots.

The religion would presumably be mostly Lutheran, with perhaps some Anglicanism, Presbyterianism, and Roman Catholicism. The population is presumably not all that religious based on the vigorous support for communists and social democrats.

Regarding geographic location, anywhere north of the Azores but south of Iceland is fine.

As for slavery, I don't think the climate of the North Atlantic would be conducive to a plantation economy. The only slavery would perhaps have been viking raids on Europe over a thousand years ago.

And finally, how can we be a "developed/industrialized" nation with a mostly agrarian, high disparity society?

Most people voted for a 50/50 urban/rural mix, not a rural society. If we have a relatively low population density with very good soil, and somehow preserved family farms, it makes sense that there would be a lot of prosperous farmers, but a fair number of landless poor and urban poor. We would be industrialized, but not as highly as Western Europe and Japan. Think perhaps of the South before World War 2, although without the whole Jim Crowe thing.

If the country has oil & gas, that could further reinforce the industrialized but unequal narrative, as those resources produce large amounts of income but few jobs.

Do we have full rail service?

That seems to make sense, but perhaps not high-speed rail?

As for history, let's say viking settlement beginning in the 9th century. The country had a classical viking political system with a king elected by tribal chieftains, which became a hereditary monarchy following conversion to Christianity in the 11th century. The country never developed feudalism. Following the end of the viking age the country became somewhat cut off from Western Europe, but engagement began again during the Age of Discovery. During the Seven Years War the country sided with France, which led to its invasion by the British Empire. Britain introduced agricultural improvements and oriented the country towards the export of agricultural products and later natural resources, which caused a population boom and relatively high immigration from the British isles. The country gained dominion status in the late 19th century and was given independence in 1931. After WW2 the country attempted to vote in a socialist government, which led to a CIA coup that installed the corrupt dictatorship we are apparently now emerging from.

The country has an urban/rural split (duh), and a viking/Briton split, with viking descendants more likely to be farmers and British descendants more likely to prominent in industry, commerce, and finance.

[Zagadka]

Not at all likely. Trade winds carried Spanish vessels to the Caribbean and then down to South and Central America. There is a reason why there was never any Spanish presence anywhere in North America other than the South and the Southwest. I would say the British Empire probably colonized it and used it in the same capacity the Spanish used Puerto Rico: as the gateway to an important trade route.

Potentially likely. The Spanish *did* send fleets along France and up to England... the Spanish Armada destruction happened largely north of Scotland, so it is *possible*... depending on when Pofoland was "discovered" by Europeans, they wouldn't have sailed along the south, but north from France, which is a shorter trip.

This is getting overcomplicated, though. On the same note, we could be largely Scandinavian, if we're in the North Atlantic, the Vikings would have colonized the island in the 1000s. (Edit: I see Dave addressed this)

Fasces made some kind of fancy-pants map, so I'd like his input. I would suggest a low population density compared to Western Europe if we go with the agricultural scenario.

Well, square mileage doesn't require a map, just a size. But we can generalize... something like Ukraine?

Most people voted for a 50/50 urban/rural mix, not a rural society. If we have a relatively low population density with very good soil

...

The religion would presumably be mostly Lutheran, with perhaps some Anglicanism, Presbyterianism, and Roman Catholicism. The population is presumably not all that religious based on the vigorous support for communists and social democrats.

We're a bastardized Ireland/Ukraine?

If the country has oil & gas, that could further reinforce the industrialized but unequal narrative, as those resources produce large amounts of income but few jobs.

If we're in the NA south of Iceland, then we definitely would have plenty of natural gas, and maybe even geothermal energy (depending on how far south).

That seems to make sense, but perhaps not high-speed rail?

Fair enough. We'd need rail to move our foodstuffs etc, since we don't seem to have a large river system like the Mississippi.

[Dave]

Potentially likely. The Spanish *did* send fleets along France and up to England... the Spanish Armada destruction happened largely north of Scotland, so it is *possible*... depending on when Pofoland was "discovered" by Europeans, they wouldn't have sailed along the south, but north from France, which is a shorter trip.

Spanish conquest is possible but less likely, given the trade winds off Iberia. A period of French or Dutch rule would not be unreasonable, however.

Well, square mileage doesn't require a map, just a size. But we can generalize... something like Ukraine?

Probably larger, since people voted for "mixed" terrain, which means a fair number of mountains. Ukraine + Belarus?

We're a bastardized Ireland/Ukraine?

If we're in the NA south of Iceland, then we definitely would have plenty of natural gas, and maybe even geothermal energy (depending on how far south).

Geothermal could be fun, but I suggest that we leave that as being presently unexploited, perhaps due to the pernicious influence of the fossil fuel lobby. That would give us some fun energy challenges. For energy, how about...

• Large onshore oil production, production peaked in the 1980s and the country is now a net oil importer
• Large gas reserves, largely unexploited due to newness of LNG technology and enviromental resistance
• Electricity sector mostly operates on substantial domestic coal reserves
• Significant deepwater offshore oil reserves, not exploited due to cost and enviromental opposition
• Thorium reserves maybe?

[Dr House]

Spanish conquest is possible but less likely, given the trade winds off Iberia.

I said that already.

[Dave]

Congratulations, you should be a doctor

[Zagadka]

Still, a *possibility*, though if the Scandinavians, Brits, or French got there first, very unlikely.

* Large onshore oil production, production peaked in the 1980s and the country is now a net oil importer
* Large gas reserves, largely unexploited due to newness of LNG technology and enviromental resistance
* Electricity sector mostly operates on substantial domestic coal reserves
* Significant deepwater offshore oil reserves, not exploited due to cost and enviromental opposition
* Thorium reserves maybe?

Fair enough, but I'd say less coal, if we're going off of the terrain of Iceland...

[Fasces]

Alpha map

Size in terms of land is roughly twice the size of Ireland. So to fit a population of 50,000,000, the major cities should be 2,000,000+, and large towns about a fourth to a half of that. I do not want to do exact calculations. Villages have not yet been added in the South.

The two major islands were positioned to make a tunnel from one island to the next possible, if Parliament is so inclined.

[Sephardi]

How do we have 50,000,000 people when we're an island nation? Can somebody show me the size of the island compared to Europe so I can see it? This might too much population.

[Le Rouge]

Who the hell is actually Scandanavian on PoFo? I would just lump most of us as Western European with a large Eastern European minority, a an Asian minority, a smaller Turk minority, and an even smaller Black minority.

[Fasces]

Britain, an island of comparable size, has about 60,000,000.

[Dave]

Alpha map

Size in terms of land is roughly twice the size of Ireland. So to fit a population of 50,000,000, the major cities should be 2,000,000+, and large towns about a fourth to a half of that. I do not want to do exact calculations. Villages have not yet been added in the South.

The two major islands were positioned to make a tunnel from one island to the next possible, if Parliament is so inclined.

Option A) Increase the size
Option B) cut the population (which people don't seem to want)

Who the hell is actually Scandanavian on PoFo? I would just lump most of us as Western European with a large Eastern European minority, a an Asian minority, a smaller Turk minority, and an even smaller Black minority.

There's Dilpill (Norwegian) and me (Swedish), and various others (e.g. Heste is Danish, but is not participating), but basing the demographics off of PoFo makes little sense, unless you want a country of almost all 20-something men. PoFo is an internet forum with users from around the world. PoFo-land is a fictional country.

[Potemkin]

Britain, an island of comparable size, has about 60,000,000.

And large parts of Scotland are almost completely unpopulated (due to the Highland Clearances and whatnot). You could easily fit 50,000,000 into Pofoland.

[Zagadka]

Who the hell is actually Scandanavian on PoFo? I would just lump most of us as Western European with a large Eastern European minority, a an Asian minority, a smaller Turk minority, and an even smaller Black minority.

Well, history can be that Scandinavians originally colonized, but never established large permanent settlement and were overpowered by Britain and France (mostly Britain, especially after the Napoleonic Wars). In the 1850s-1900s, many Eastern Europeans immigrated from (modifying history) an enlarged Crimean War and crop failure (similar to the Irish immigration to America). As is the situation in Britain and most of West Europe now, there is a modest influx of Muslims, mostly from Central Asia and Turkey, SE Asians, and Africans. And there's House and myself.


EDIT

And I say that we gained independence from Britain during the Napoleonic Wars/War of 1812/Mr. Madison's War/whatever with an alliance with America and France. We have a current relationship with our colonial powers (Britain and France) similar to America's (dissimilar to Canada's); in other words, fully independent with our own history, but not antagonistic about the past.

[Dave]

I don't understand why we need to reflect PoFo's demographics at all.