Hard Earned: The Working Class in the United States - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15265337
I watched this documentary and found it interesting. The working people are not asking for the moon. The woman that is a waitress in the documentary at the beginning just says with such hope....I just want weekends off and holidays. I want to have a weekend off.

That is terrible that someone works hard their whole lives and depends on tips that are irregular and not consistent and on top of that they do not have any real time to rest. The USA needs to mandate paid time off for workers across the board. Even if they are part time. The minimum wage has to hit fifteen dollars an hour at least and worker rights need to improve drastically. Undermining worker rights will lead to the chaos of Southwest Airlines and also many other industries. If you do not support the workers and their rights? The entire society goes down the tubes.

People complain about the price of food. The ones making money off of food in the USA are the middle men. And the big chains and corporations. Agricultural workers have abysmal working conditions and often work under terrible circumstances, in triple digit heat, without adequate shelter, and cooking facilities or toilets, and often arrive from Central America, Mexico and other nations without much in terms of basic clothing and medical care. They got COVID 19 and often had to show up sick to work or be fired since the growing season is so short and the harvest has to be the top priority. It endangers other people subject to their illness spreading on the food people consume. Taking care of all workers is a human rights issue. A health issue.

Restaurants have gone bust in the pandemic. I am sure all of you know restaurants that have closed due to the pandemic and the slowing down of customer patronage. Restaurants are the most common business and employs more people in the USA after truck driving....yet, a lot of restaurants do not survive their first two years open for business. Why? Many of these businesses are responsible for paying huge amounts of sales taxes, and city taxes, and higher rents, and they pay people really low wages based on an outdated restaurant wage law, and the tips do not keep up with inflation. The costs of electricity and water and garbage and etc...is very bad in the USA. It cuts into these businesses. People see restaurant work as grunt work and it gets zero respect in the society. There are many reasons for the reality of restaurants never being really profitable. Yet a city without restaurants and without diners and cafeterias and without variation of foods and menus is a city most people find not attractive to live in. Why don't they create better circumstances for all the people working in these places?

It is simple. The entire society is not about serving small businesses or local economies. It is built to serve huge multinational corporations and chains and to have lobbyists flooding the halls of congress to make sure only the most wealthy and powerful players get their needs met in the government. The average taxpayer gets NOTHING done for them.

People are getting fed up with that. That is not only the USA but many nations in the world have the same problem. Inequality. Lack of power of the vast majority of voters. Regular working people being ignored and who gives a damn. That is creating tremendous problems. If it is not addressed? It won't get solved.

#15265344
@Tainari88

Tainari88 wrote:I watched this documentary and found it interesting. The working people are not asking for the moon. The woman that is a waitress in the documentary at the beginning just says with such hope....I just want weekends off and holidays. I want to have a weekend off.

That is terrible that someone works hard their whole lives and depends on tips that are irregular and not consistent and on top of that they do not have any real time to rest. The USA needs to mandate paid time off for workers across the board. Even if they are part time. The minimum wage has to hit fifteen dollars an hour at least and worker rights need to improve drastically. Undermining worker rights will lead to the chaos of Southwest Airlines and also many other industries. If you do not support the workers and their rights? The entire society goes down the tubes.

People complain about the price of food. The ones making money off of food in the USA are the middle men. And the big chains and corporations. Agricultural workers have abysmal working conditions and often work under terrible circumstances, in triple digit heat, without adequate shelter, and cooking facilities or toilets, and often arrive from Central America, Mexico and other nations without much in terms of basic clothing and medical care. They got COVID 19 and often had to show up sick to work or be fired since the growing season is so short and the harvest has to be the top priority. It endangers other people subject to their illness spreading on the food people consume. Taking care of all workers is a human rights issue. A health issue.

Restaurants have gone bust in the pandemic. I am sure all of you know restaurants that have closed due to the pandemic and the slowing down of customer patronage. Restaurants are the most common business and employs more people in the USA after truck driving....yet, a lot of restaurants do not survive their first two years open for business. Why? Many of these businesses are responsible for paying huge amounts of sales taxes, and city taxes, and higher rents, and they pay people really low wages based on an outdated restaurant wage law, and the tips do not keep up with inflation. The costs of electricity and water and garbage and etc...is very bad in the USA. It cuts into these businesses. People see restaurant work as grunt work and it gets zero respect in the society. There are many reasons for the reality of restaurants never being really profitable. Yet a city without restaurants and without diners and cafeterias and without variation of foods and menus is a city most people find not attractive to live in. Why don't they create better circumstances for all the people working in these places?

It is simple. The entire society is not about serving small businesses or local economies. It is built to serve huge multinational corporations and chains and to have lobbyists flooding the halls of congress to make sure only the most wealthy and powerful players get their needs met in the government. The average taxpayer gets NOTHING done for them.

People are getting fed up with that. That is not only the USA but many nations in the world have the same problem. Inequality. Lack of power of the vast majority of voters. Regular working people being ignored and who gives a damn. That is creating tremendous problems. If it is not addressed? It won't get solved.


I have to say I agree with you here. You hit the nail on the head. Excellent post! The working class is the backbone of our economy, and they deserve better than what they are getting. If truth be told, if the working class doesn't get a better deal, then some will turn to crime to make better money which creates even more significant problems for everybody. Honest work has to pay enough, which it doesn't right now in the case for many in the working class.
#15265355
late wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYHT4zJsCdo


Late, Stigliz speaks about inequality. But you have a huge and powerful section of DC politics like the GOP that will never do a damn thing to improve the society. You have a lot of working class and middle class American voters who are Republicans and Democrats who might as well be Republicans because they are sellouts. Where is the political pressure to get rid of these politicians? They are being rewarded with senate committee seats and choice PAC seats in congress. Where is there ACTION to oust these idiots and traitors to democratic processes?

I do not see pressure that is unbearable for these people. Where is it going to come from? Ralph Nader was interviewed by Amy Goodman in the show Democracy Now! And he stated that neither party is taking action on the lack of movement on the Hill. There is not enough pressure on these people.

I vote in every election. From abroad. From Mexico. I will keep voting in the USA elections. I vote for my political system but it is not a majority party vote. I do not see commitment to the working people of either the USA or the world. So why should I vote for them? They are incompetent. A bunch of sellout people with almost zero intellect of any kind.

These are the kind of people representing the USA's working class voters? They are not. They are voting for people who are demogogues and non action takers who sit on their ass and never come up with real plans to change the situation. You can't tolerate that in a democracy. Especially when the average American person who works for a living makes less than $65,000 dollars a year in earned income.

It is a terrible and corrupted system. Admit that. And start thinking of ways to uncorrupt it totally. Because if we don't? The fascists are happy with their plan. Do you want me @late to cite state department planning documents and the plans the USA government has had for decades in place that basically hates democracy and working people all over the world and are tremendously successful in making the world a place of war and misery and the only ones coming out winning are a bunch of arms dealers, corporations with deep pockets and international bankers with corrupt motivations? Because I got all the documents. Those people are died in the wool fascists and want a world of fascist dictatorships where they are the ones coming out winning.

The USA declassified documents from the past. It is there in black and white. What they had been planning to dominate and what role all the players are assigned to do.

Democracy is not in the plans. Who is winning? The working people of the USA? No. Those people were fought for by the LEFT. Not the Right. And the Right decimated the Left in the USA and there is no real resistance to those fascists now.

If you don't do anything hard and organized about that problem? The USA will become a world threat. That is guaranteed. China is rising. They are planning to expand their influence. The USA will resent that. Will they throw bombs on China? Will the working people not stop them? I don't know. The USA is brainwashed against socialism and worker rights. You got people make shit for wages defending the rights of conmen lying wealthy autocratic foolish people in power like Trump and his followers in the Republican party. Read the writing on the wall there.

#15265357
Politics_Observer wrote:@Tainari88



I have to say I agree with you here. You hit the nail on the head. Excellent post! The working class is the backbone of our economy, and they deserve better than what they are getting. If truth be told, if the working class doesn't get a better deal, then some will turn to crime to make better money which creates even more significant problems for everybody. Honest work has to pay enough, which it doesn't right now in the case for many in the working class.


Politics, the truth is most people working for a living don't have time to be reading up on what is socialism and what is capitalism and what is anarchy and who invests what in which stock. But they understand trying to make ends meet. Bills got to get paid.

People need to be organized and look for ways to pressure out the politicians who are not responding to their interests. Identifying with people who have nothing to do with the working class man and woman's problems in life has to be emphasized as not the way to go. If that politician is being voted for because he is against gays and the big issue for a family struggling for end's meet is low wages? Why the hell are you voting for a stupid politician who is only emphasizing his hatred of same sex marriage? How is that one trick pony the big deal for you? No one will be better off with the anti-gay stance. Not in a hetero couple household who makes shit for wages and struggles with two kids. It is ridiculous fluff issues with no substance for most.

You want to know how to conquer racism or not understanding another human culture that you never grew up in? It takes WORK and dedication and being organized. The same for dealing with class inequality problems. People must realize which class they are in and why they are in that class and what will improve their lives. It is not hard. YOU ASK THEM. What will improve your life waitress lady who works? I need a weekend off. I need a predictable paycheck where I can make x amount of steady dollars a month to get out of debt.
#15265376
Tainari88 wrote:That is terrible that someone works hard their whole lives and depends on tips that are irregular and not consistent and on top of that they do not have any real time to rest. The USA needs to mandate paid time off for workers across the board. Even if they are part time. The minimum wage has to hit fifteen dollars an hour at least and worker rights need to improve drastically. Undermining worker rights will lead to the chaos of Southwest Airlines and also many other industries. If you do not support the workers and their rights? The entire society goes down the tubes.

Problem is, like everyone else on the left, you are ignoring workers' actual rights and focusing on getting them countervailing privilege. The reason workers are exploited is that everyone's rights to liberty have been forcibly removed, by law, and made over into the private property of the privileged, especially landowners. This strips workers (and consumers) of their bargaining power, and as a result, they are exploited.
People complain about the price of food. The ones making money off of food in the USA are the middle men.

No. The ones making money off of food are the privileged rent seekers -- landowners, banksters and IP monopolists -- whose returns, by law, cannot be competed away.
Agricultural workers have abysmal working conditions and often work under terrible circumstances, in triple digit heat, without adequate shelter, and cooking facilities or toilets, and often arrive from Central America, Mexico and other nations without much in terms of basic clothing and medical care. They got COVID 19 and often had to show up sick to work or be fired since the growing season is so short and the harvest has to be the top priority. It endangers other people subject to their illness spreading on the food people consume. Taking care of all workers is a human rights issue. A health issue.

What are their human rights, though, and how does their abrogation cause the problem? Until you understand that, you won't be able to offer a genuine solution.
Many of these businesses are responsible for paying huge amounts of sales taxes, and city taxes, and higher rents, and they pay people really low wages based on an outdated restaurant wage law, and the tips do not keep up with inflation. The costs of electricity and water and garbage and etc...is very bad in the USA. It cuts into these businesses.

All the taxes are stolen from producers and consumers and given to landowners in return for nothing. The landowners pocket publicly created land rent in return for no contribution. All costs are inflated by the legal requirement for the productive to shovel money into the pockets of the privileged, especially landowners, just for their permission to work, shop, and access desirable public services and infrastructure -- i.e., to exist.
People see restaurant work as grunt work and it gets zero respect in the society. There are many reasons for the reality of restaurants never being really profitable. Yet a city without restaurants and without diners and cafeterias and without variation of foods and menus is a city most people find not attractive to live in. Why don't they create better circumstances for all the people working in these places?

Because that would inevitably involve justice, and the privileged will not permit it.
It is simple. The entire society is not about serving small businesses or local economies. It is built to serve huge multinational corporations and chains and to have lobbyists flooding the halls of congress to make sure only the most wealthy and powerful players get their needs met in the government. The average taxpayer gets NOTHING done for them.

It is indeed simple, but not in that way. The privileged are legally entitled to steal from everyone else. Simple.
People are getting fed up with that. That is not only the USA but many nations in the world have the same problem. Inequality. Lack of power of the vast majority of voters. Regular working people being ignored and who gives a damn. That is creating tremendous problems. If it is not addressed? It won't get solved.

Once you can find a willingness to know the fact that the root problem is privilege -- legal entitlements to benefit from the forcible abrogation of others' rights without making just compensation -- everything makes sense, everything fits, everything is obvious.
#15265394
@Truth To Power

Truth To Power wrote:Problem is, like everyone else on the left, you are ignoring workers' actual rights and focusing on getting them countervailing privilege. The reason workers are exploited is that everyone's rights to liberty have been forcibly removed, by law, and made over into the private property of the privileged, especially landowners. This strips workers (and consumers) of their bargaining power, and as a result, they are exploited.


Reagan gutted the bargaining power of unions in the 1980s when he fired the air traffic controllers and set a legal precedent that allowed big business to go on a union-busting binge without consequence. THAT legal precedent set by Reagan gutted the bargaining power of unions. Moreover, it harmed the political power of ordinary working people because, with unions crushed, their voice in government became smaller and smaller.

As time progressed, these wealthy big business owners wanted more tax cuts because enough money was never enough for them. How would they pay for these tax cuts? They ensured the Republicans in Congress understood that they must get rid of social security and medicare to pay for the tax cuts for the rich. So the government was going to take the money from social security and medicare to pay for the cost of government, given that tax cuts given to the rich would leave a funding shortfall.

Government still has to get paid. Nothing is free. So given that the rich would be given tax cuts, that funding shortfall would come by Republicans taking away social security and medicare and using that money that was there for social security and medicare to pay for tax cuts for the rich.

We can count on the Republicans to create a false narrative that "to balance the budget, we must sunset social security and medicare." You, of course, will not hear Republicans say, "to balance the budget, we must re-institute the taxes we had prior on the rich and wealthy and close tax-dodging loopholes that the wealthy and privileged use to avoid paying taxes."
#15265494
Politics_Observer wrote:Reagan gutted the bargaining power of unions in the 1980s when he fired the air traffic controllers and set a legal precedent that allowed big business to go on a union-busting binge without consequence. THAT legal precedent set by Reagan gutted the bargaining power of unions. Moreover, it harmed the political power of ordinary working people because, with unions crushed, their voice in government became smaller and smaller.

Nope. Union power is just more countervailing privilege. It is not liberty, and it is not justice. As such, it could NEVER be a solution to the problem of privilege -- and has not been, anywhere it has ever been tried.
As time progressed, these wealthy big business owners wanted more tax cuts because enough money was never enough for them. How would they pay for these tax cuts? They ensured the Republicans in Congress understood that they must get rid of social security and medicare to pay for the tax cuts for the rich. So the government was going to take the money from social security and medicare to pay for the cost of government, given that tax cuts given to the rich would leave a funding shortfall.

Again, you are re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The problem is not tax cuts for the rich, the problem is that the wrong things are being taxed in the first place.
Government still has to get paid. Nothing is free. So given that the rich would be given tax cuts, that funding shortfall would come by Republicans taking away social security and medicare and using that money that was there for social security and medicare to pay for tax cuts for the rich.

Why are SS and Medicare even necessary in the first place?

Blank out.
We can count on the Republicans to create a false narrative that "to balance the budget, we must sunset social security and medicare." You, of course, will not hear Republicans say, "to balance the budget, we must re-institute the taxes we had prior on the rich and wealthy and close tax-dodging loopholes that the wealthy and privileged use to avoid paying taxes."

Republicans are not the problem, and neither are "loopholes" that enable the privileged to avoid paying taxes that should never have been levied in the first place. That should have been obvious decades ago.
#15265499
@Truth To Power wrote:
Why are SS and Medicare even necessary in the first place?

Blank out.


Do you think these programs just jumped out of nowhere TTP? They are a result of pressure. In the Great Depression FDR had to do something about high unemployment and banks having long lines of deposits being withdrawn by customers.

Here is the video:



If you are a working class person and worked for many decades and paid in to the system you have a right to collect once you reitre at 65.

The reality is the average person who retires can't pay for your basics anymore. Rents are high. Food costs are high. Medication costs are high. You can work to supplement it but only part time and it is limiting people. Why? Because the problem is corrupt assholes in government who do not want to deal with the reality that people work and once they slow down on working because they are getting older with lower energy levels? They have a right to rest and live in dignity for the remainder of life that is left to them.

Do you think people with disabilities should not get help or women with dependent kids who's spouse died of a heart attack and can't pay the mortgage now that the husband is dead? Come on Truth to Power.

Mexico is harsh in general as a place for working Mexicans. You don't get food stamps or welfare, or anything from the government until recently. But for many generations in Mexico if you don't work you don't eat. Your kids support you. Period. Most of the Mexicans work in informal jobs that go unreported in terms of earnings to the government. You can't collect taxes from informal economies in the Third World. You have almost no public funds for basics like cleaning out sewer lines and building new junior high schools and high schools, etc. Everyone is broke and living on the edge. Crime goes up and there are serious property crimes all the time.

People squat on land that is both public and privately owned by other people. But since these poor people are in the millions in Latin America?Trying to remove them from the land they squat on is impossible. They then do makeshift water lines and power lines, steal electricity and without any city planners involved do their own haphazard community stuff. Tiny grocery stores, and pharmacies, and hardware shops, tailors and so on....no one pays rents or taxes and the cycle is hard to break. Why? Because unless you organize the financial lives of working people with some planning involved and you don't go for ideas of first world societies with infrastructure investments and livable wages and fully funded taxation that is spent on public projects with some wisdom? You get CHAOS and CRIME and people who are functionally illiterate, and become the ones pressuring hard to get rid of the wealthy and the property owners. They don't identify with the wealthy and the ones living with fancy homes with all the services. Why should they? You live your human class based experience....not some libertarian Ayn Rand lone Ranger dream.

And even Rand cashed in her social security checks after howl about the horrors of depending on the government! Hypocrite!

#15265517
Rancid wrote:The working class exists to serve the interests of the wealthy elites.

I love being rich.


Yes, and then the rich get some mob running after them and angry running from the people looking for the lost funds Bernie Madoff style....where is my money? They wait for the ax to fall like a Russian oligarch billionaire trying to avoid a Putin hitman. Lol.

The rich and elites in this country are like Benicio del Toro in the final scene with the drug dealer man responsible for killing his daughter off....in the Sicario movie....'no es personal'.....they say to the working class that has a lot of problems....

Think about it you sin vergüenza....these rich folks all think it is going to go on without consequences and the angry mob is like Del Toro and he tells them....ahora vas a conocer a Dios.



None of the people who got a bad lower working class revolution in human history ever thought it would happen to them. They were in control...of it all. Till they weren't.
#15265643
Tainari88 wrote:Do you think these programs just jumped out of nowhere TTP? They are a result of pressure. In the Great Depression FDR had to do something about high unemployment and banks having long lines of deposits being withdrawn by customers.

Do you think that came out of nowhere?
If you are a working class person and worked for many decades and paid in to the system you have a right to collect once you reitre at 65.

Why is such a system necessary?
The reality is the average person who retires can't pay for your basics anymore.

Why not?
Rents are high. Food costs are high. Medication costs are high.

WHY??
You can work to supplement it but only part time and it is limiting people. Why? Because the problem is corrupt assholes in government who do not want to deal with the reality that people work and once they slow down on working because they are getting older with lower energy levels? They have a right to rest and live in dignity for the remainder of life that is left to them.

No they don't. The problem is, you can't tell the difference between rights, privileges, and countervailing privileges, so you think countervailing privileges are rights.
Do you think people with disabilities should not get help or women with dependent kids who's spouse died of a heart attack and can't pay the mortgage now that the husband is dead? Come on Truth to Power.

Why is their home so expensive that they had to get a mortgage to buy it?

Blank out.
Mexico is harsh in general as a place for working Mexicans. You don't get food stamps or welfare, or anything from the government until recently. But for many generations in Mexico if you don't work you don't eat. Your kids support you. Period. Most of the Mexicans work in informal jobs that go unreported in terms of earnings to the government. You can't collect taxes from informal economies in the Third World. You have almost no public funds for basics like cleaning out sewer lines and building new junior high schools and high schools, etc. Everyone is broke and living on the edge. Crime goes up and there are serious property crimes all the time.

But no matter how poor the people, the government can always afford to increase the welfare subsidy to landowners, as proved, repeat, PROVED by the astronomical unimproved value of land.
People squat on land that is both public and privately owned by other people. But since these poor people are in the millions in Latin America?Trying to remove them from the land they squat on is impossible. They then do makeshift water lines and power lines, steal electricity and without any city planners involved do their own haphazard community stuff. Tiny grocery stores, and pharmacies, and hardware shops, tailors and so on....no one pays rents or taxes and the cycle is hard to break. Why?

Because like you, they cannot tell the difference between rightful property in the fruits of one's labor and wrongful property in others' rights to liberty:
Because unless you organize the financial lives of working people with some planning involved and you don't go for ideas of first world societies with infrastructure investments and livable wages and fully funded taxation that is spent on public projects with some wisdom? You get CHAOS and CRIME and people who are functionally illiterate, and become the ones pressuring hard to get rid of the wealthy and the property owners.

See? Utterly oblivious to the difference between earned property and stolen property.
They don't identify with the wealthy and the ones living with fancy homes with all the services. Why should they?

They should learn the difference between privilege and production.
#15265697
Truth To Power wrote:History shows that the privileged prefer to perish in blood and flame, and to watch their children slaughtered before their eyes, rather than relinquish even the smallest portion of their unjust advantages.


Amen.

FUck the poor. It's all our war!
#15265736
@Truth To Power

There will always be rich and poor, and there will always be privilege. The best that can be done is to ensure that working people are paid enough (enough to afford shelter, and food, save a little bit, have some time off, and have transportation to work, as well as ensure they have opportunities to get a good education and learn valuable skills to get paid better in the future) and have the opportunity to move up the socioeconomic ladder. There is no way to eliminate rich and poor or privilege. It will always exist. Such is the reality of human nature that no political or economic system can do away with. There will never be a utopia or perfection. There will be "good enough," though.
#15265739
Truth To Power wrote:Do you think that came out of nowhere?

Why is such a system necessary?

Why not?

WHY??

No they don't. The problem is, you can't tell the difference between rights, privileges, and countervailing privileges, so you think countervailing privileges are rights.

Why is their home so expensive that they had to get a mortgage to buy it?

Blank out.

But no matter how poor the people, the government can always afford to increase the welfare subsidy to landowners, as proved, repeat, PROVED by the astronomical unimproved value of land.

Because like you, they cannot tell the difference between rightful property in the fruits of one's labor and wrongful property in others' rights to liberty:

See? Utterly oblivious to the difference between earned property and stolen property.

They should learn the difference between privilege and production.


Who came up with the concept of private property TTP? Did a caveman leave his cave in the Stone age and say to himself, [Behold, this is private land. It is my land...from the land of the saber tooth tiger to the Manhattan Island, this land was made to become private for you and me!!

Most early humans had no concept of private property and private land. In fact, many lands are communally owned in many tribal societies. You own your toothbrush and some clothes and that is it. Homes, land and water, plants and everything else is communal stuff.

Who was the private property guy or girl? Hmmmm.



The English had a very long history of private land ownership.

That was not universal with many Native American societies.






Roman law, for public and private prop. rights:



A guy here talking about the differences between private individual property and Bourgeois property...



So what does this mean?

That these concepts of what property means is controversial in many scholarly analysis and with Marx and with the Locke folks and the English Common Law stuff. And then you got Roman concepts. You got Native American concepts of thinking like the Hopi....and many others. Land is alive and is a living thing. Therefore you can't OWN it. That is for crazy ass people who think something that is alive and breathes, moves and which all humans depend on for life....can't be owned. You belong to the Earth and the Earth does not belong to you. Only crazy folk believe they dominate something vastly more powerful than you are.

So all your gymnastics here Truth to Power is about concepts that no one really agrees universally on.

People live according to their circumstances. How do people survive in wage systems? Trading their labor for the wage to pay for their survival. Inherently imbalanced in power.
#15265775
Tainari88 wrote:I watched this documentary and found it interesting. The working people are not asking for the moon.

The term "Working Class" is a misnomer. Its Marxist propaganda that has been unthinkingly absorbed by the mainstream like the term "Capitalism". I identify as someone from the Kulak class. The Communists murdered 6 and a half million (The latest estimates for the whole of the Soviet union seem to be 5 - 8 million so I've taken the middle figure) of us in The Collectivisation. Back then owning a horse could you mark out as a Kulak and worthy of extermination, in today's world if the Communist come to power a Chippies tool set, running a modest YouTube channel or owning a Sapphire Rapids workstation will probably mark people out as Kulaks and hence class enemies.

That is terrible that someone works hard their whole lives and depends on tips that are irregular and not consistent

I have partial sympathies both with the views of Mr Pink and David Mitchell.



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