County in UK makes it a hate crime to upset women - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14701387
County in UK makes it a hate crime to upset women
By Ashe Schow (@AsheSchow) • 7/13/16 12:13 PM

If you talk to a woman in Nottinghamshire, East Midlands in the United Kingdom and she doesn't want to be spoken to by you, prepare to get a call from the police.

In an effort to crack down on the alleged "tidal wave of abuse and harassment" women face every day, the county's police force is now considering things like catcalling and pickup lines to be a hate crime if they are directed toward a woman from a man.

The incredibly vague definition of a misogynist hate crime from Nottinghamshire reads: "Incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman and includes behavior targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman."

Of course, that could include anything a woman deems offensive or unwanted from a man. It's completely subjective. If a man approaches a woman in a bar and attempts to flirt with her, but she doesn't find him attractive, he could be guilty of a hate crime. Unattractive men, beware.

Newsweek reports that now "everything from verbal comments to unwanted physical approaches" will be considered a hate crime. Send a woman a text when she doesn't like you? Hate crime. Tell your female friend she looks good today? Hate crime.

The only thing mentioned in the Newsweek article that even remotely sounds like it merits the time of police officers is when a man takes a photo of a woman without her consent. Depending on the type of photo and reason for taking it, that can be disgusting.

Even with that, not every unsolicited photo should be considered a hate crime. I've had friends send me a photo of a woman they saw out somewhere who looked just like me, adding "doppelganger?" There was no intent to disrespect the unknown woman, but now, just because a man took the photo, that could be a hate crime.

All those whiny outrage feminist articles that most people laugh off as first world problems are now influencing actual criminal law.

"What women face, often on a daily basis, is absolutely unacceptable and can be extremely distressing," Chief Constable Sue Fish said. "Nottinghamshire Police is committed to taking misogynistic hate crime seriously and encourages anyone who is affected by it to contact us without hesitation."

Shockingly, domestic abuse won't be considered a hate crime, even though it is an objectively offensive crime, because it has its own established procedure. Go figure.

Of course, women's groups were all for the new law.

"We're pleased to see Nottinghamshire Police recognize the breadth of violence and intimidation that women experience on a daily basis in our communities," The manager of Nottingham Women's Center, Melanie Jeffs, said. "Understanding this as a hate crime will help people to see the seriousness of these incidents and hopefully encourage more women to come forward and report offences."

Sam Smethers, Chief Executive at the women's rights group The Fawcett Society, told Newsweek: "Women and girls face a tidal wave of abuse and harassment every day. Our law has to send a clear signal that this is not acceptable. It is a crime."

Rachel Noble, Women's Rights Policy Adviser at ActionAid U.K., also praised Nottinghamshire Police for "recognizing the scope and scale of the violence and harassment that women face every day."

It must be nice to have so little actual crime that the police can focus on such things.

In their article, Newsweek links to a severely flawed study that shows women make up to 50 percent of online misogynistic comments. If we take that study at its word, like Newsweek does, then why are only men being punished for alleged misogyny? Want to know how to determine if a crime is bogus? When only certain people are punished for committing it.

That actually makes this law misandrist, since only men can be the perpetrators even though women are guilty as well.

As we've seen time and time again from outrage feminists on social media, any criticism of a woman is misogyny. That would make this article misogynist, but I wouldn't be prosecuted — not just because I don't live in Nottinghamshire — but also because I'm a woman.

It's almost as if we abandoned our moral standards and manners, and then panicked over their absence and are now trying to bring them back in the form of legislation.

I wouldn't be surprised if outrage feminists in the U.S. start pushing for this to be the law over here, too.

Ashe Schow is a commentary writer for the Washington Examiner.

Washington Examiner


But what if this would disproportionately impact recently arrived immigrants of MENA origin. That would amount to legislative racism! :eek:
#14701388
So let me get this straight.
If a man, any man, tried to talk to a girl, not harass, not harm or call unpleasent things, just normal talk, its now a crime.
This brings two questions.
1- How are men and women going to be getting with each other with such laws ? will it go back to traditional set up relationships ?
2- Isn't that exactly like what radical religious people trying to do seperating both genders entirely ?

A side question.
Is it just me or feminism has gone total nutjob lately ?
#14704688
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/catcalling-is-now-a-hate-crime-in-this-british-county_us_57890182e4b03fc3ee508b14
In a statement from the department, the Nottinghamshire Police defined a “misogyny hate crime” as:

Misogyny hate crime, in addition to the general hate crime definition, may be understood as incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman, and includes behaviour targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman.

Examples of misogyny hate crime include “unwanted or uninvited sexual advances; physical or verbal assault; unwanted or uninvited physical or verbal contact or engagement; use of mobile devices to send unwanted or uninvited messages or take photographs without consent or permission.”

This designation means the police force will investigate incidents such as catcalling and online harassment like revenge porn and social media abuse as hate crimes.


When it comes to things defined as hate crimes, does it require that one breaks an already existing law and then the hate crime extended the length or severity of the sentence?
So one has to commit a crime of harassment and it has to be deemed to be motivated by prejudice and on the basis of being a woman in this context to then have the added charge of it being a hate crime.
Because by sounds of it, you couldn't be charged for catcalling unless it already constituted a crime in itself such as harassment which requires a persistent or multiple acts/events.
Anyone up on hate crime laws?
#14704732
so let me get this straight.
If a man, any man, tried to talk to a girl, not harass, not harm or call unpleasent things, just normal talk, its now a crime.


No.

This brings two questions.
1- How are men and women going to be getting with each other with such laws ? will it go back to traditional set up relationships ?
2- Isn't that exactly like what radical religious people trying to do seperating both genders entirely ?



1. No, men and women will get on with each other in more or less exactly the same way they do now.

Just don't make any personal remarks to a strange woman you meet in the street that you wouldn't feel perfectly happy making to a strange man you may meet in the street.

It's simple. Lots of men already don't harass women in the street, so the law will not affect them.

It will only affect men who like harassing women and think it's a fun thing to do.

2. Not as far as I know. Is there a religion that preaches against men harassing strange women they meet in the street? If so, I'd join it like a shot.

A side question.
Is it just me or feminism has gone total nutjob lately ?


You, probably.
#14704739
Surely this already covered by legislation against harassment, particularly sexual harassment?

Hate crime seems to be a misnomer also given this is the super vague scope of the legislation:

The incredibly vague definition of a misogynist hate crime from Nottinghamshire reads: "Incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman and includes behavior targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman."

That is vague enough to cover even such benign acts as holding a door open, offering to carry a heavy bag or even just smiling.
#14704744
Nottinghamshire Police now classify misogyny as a hate crime, but will wolf-whistling at a woman, for example, really lead to arrest and prosecution?
In a statement announcing the initiative, a collaboration with the Nottingham Women’s Centre, the police department has broadened its definition of a ‘hate crime’ to include misogyny and harassment of women.
Obliquely worded, a misogyny hate crime is “simply any incident, which may or may not be deemed as a criminal offense, which is perceived by the victim or any other person, as being motivated by prejudice or hatred,” the statement reads.
Offenses ranging from physical or verbal harassment to “uninvited engagement” and “unwanted or uninvited” text messages all classify as misogyny hate crimes, and reports of such incidents will be thoroughly investigated by Nottinghamshire Police.
Speaking to the Daily Telegraph, a police spokesperson noted that any unwanted contact “can cover wolf-whistling and other similar types of contact. If the victim feels they’ve been targeted because they are a woman then we will record it as a hate crime.”
The emphasis here is mine, as Nottinghamshire’s police force is setting new precedents in law enforcement by prioritizing feelings over evidence when reporting a misogyny hate crime.
The spokesperson went on: “This doesn’t necessarily mean that a criminal offense has been committed, but means we will carry out risk assessments and offer support as we would to any victim of a hate crime.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... crime.html


The local police do not have the power to amend Britain's hate crime laws such as the Race Relations Act 1965 that outlawed discrimination on the "grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins" in public places. The broadening of the definition of hate crime is merely symbolic, which is meant to offer moral support for the victims, and no one will be prosecuted for a misogynistic hate crime.
#14704881
The local police do not have the power to amend Britain's hate crime laws such as the Race Relations Act 1965 that outlawed discrimination on the "grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins" in public places. The broadening of the definition of hate crime is merely symbolic, which is meant to offer moral support for the victims, and no one will be prosecuted for a misogynistic hate crime.


https://www.gov.uk/report-hate-crime

The local police wouldn't be broadening or altering the definition of hate crime, exactly, as gender is covered.

The Nottinghamshire police are rather making local people more aware that such harassment is against the law.
#14705887
Decky wrote:This isn't the USA PI, we have never actually had a legally defended right to freedom of expression in Britain in the first place.


This may not be the USA but freedom is always used in the narratives of the political elite here.

It is clearly the freedom to have only certain types of opinions and say certain types of things.
#14705888
And? As I said that has always been the case. Ask a Catholic about the history of freedom of expression in Britain. :lol: It has never been a thing here, they can't take what we have never had.
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