[annatar1914]

A reflection on threads today has brought my mind back to musings on this great divide between Mankind, from the Christian perspective. From the time of St. Abel the Just they have killed the righteous, and Cain builds the human Petrifact, the City, on his blood. Rich versus Poor. Urban versus Rural, Civilization versus Barbarians, Settlers versus Indigenous, Technology versus human existence as Jacques Ellul or Ivan Illich might have wrote... Sin and death ranged against life and purity, polymorphous sexuality and transhumanism/AI against the family and the very meaning of what it is to be a human being.

Future trends as I see them show further division. There will be on one hand I think, the Atheist and Socialist, the Nation-State fusing all into World Government, the masses of the immorally degenerate and the weak who need the City, need the State, to provide a zone if you will to protect them as much as possible from the consequences of reality...

On the other hand is the Christian, the Free Remnant, who turn back from the seductions of Antichrist and the witchcraft of transhumanist technology, who reject the idolatry of the State and the envy of the Socialist, who reject the God-Fighting Atheist.

[annatar1914]

A prayer from Pierre Proudhon;

"O God of liberty! God of equality! Thou who didst place in my heart the sentiment of justice, before my reason could comprehend it, hear my ardent prayer! Thou hast dictated all that I have written; Thou hast shaped my thought; Thou hast directed my studies; Thou hast weaned my mind from curiosity and my heart from attachment, that I might publish Thy truth to the master and the slave. I have spoken with what force and talent Thou hast given me: it is Thine to finish the work. Thou knowest whether I seek my welfare or Thy glory, O God of liberty! Ah! perish my memory, and let humanity be free! Let me see from my obscurity the people at last instructed; let noble teachers enlighten them; let generous spirits guide them! Abridge, if possible, the time of our trial; stifle pride and avarice in equality; annihilate this love of glory which enslaves us; teach these poor children that in the bosom of liberty there are neither heroes nor great men! Inspire the powerful man, the rich man, him whose name my lips shall never pronounce in Thy presence, with a horror of his crimes; let him be the first to apply for admission to the redeemed society; let the promptness of his repentance be the ground of his forgiveness! Then, great and small, wise and foolish, rich and poor, will unite in an ineffable fraternity; and, singing in unison a new hymn, will rebuild Thy altar, O God of liberty and equality!"

Amen, and Amen!

[SolarCross]

A prayer from Pierre Proudhon;
Amen, and Amen!

Elsewhere Proudhon calls Satan his god of liberty. That passage is addressing some other and opposite god to that of the Father of Jesus.

There it is, that revolutionary liberty, cursed for so long, because it was not understood, because its key was sought in words instead of in things; there it is, as a philosophy inspired by it alone should in the end furnish it. In revealing itself to us in its essence, it gives us, along with the reason of our religious and political institutions, the secret of our destiny.

Oh! I understand, Monseigneur, that you do not like liberty, that you have never liked it. Liberty, which you cannot deny without destroying yourself, which you cannot affirm without destroying yourself still, you dread it as the Sphinx dreaded Oedipus: it came, and the riddle of the Church was answered; Christianity is no longer anything other than an episode in the mythology of the human race. Liberty, symbolized by the story of the Temptation, is your Antichrist; liberty, for you, is the Devil.

Come, Satan, come, slandered by priests and kings! Let me embrace you, let me clutch you to my breast! I have known you for a long time, and you know me as well. Your works, oh blessed of my heart, are not always beautiful or good; but you alone give sense to the universe and prevent it from being absurd. What would justice be without you? An instinct. Reason? A routine. Man? A beast. You alone prompt labor and render it fertile; you ennoble wealth, serve as an excuse for authority, put the seal on virtue. Hope still, proscript! I have at your service only a pen, but it is worth millions of ballots. And I wish only to ask when the days sung of by the poet will return:

You crossed gothic ruins; / Our defenders pressed at your heels; / Flowers rained down, and modest virgins / Mingled their songs with the war-hymn. / All stirred, and armed themselves for the defense; / All were proud, above all the poor. / Ah! Give back to me the days of my childhood,/ Goddess of Liberty!

- Proudhon

[annatar1914]

Elsewhere Proudhon calls Satan his god of liberty. That passage is addressing some other and opposite god to that of the Father of Jesus.

Not only is that untrue, it's an old untruth, a quote from a Legitimist/Royalist rag in France that then got widely publicized by a French Cardinal, a fake quote on the scale of the ''Protocols of the Elders of Zion''. Proudhon never called ''Satan his god of liberty''.

Any true Christian could identify with what Proudhon wrote. Liberty is not Un-Christian, nor is the desire for Equality.

[annatar1914]

Here's the full actual quote from Proudhon, in which he is actually MOCKING the idea of Liberty as being thought of as ''Satanic'' by reactionary roman catholics;

There it is, that revolutionary liberty, cursed for so long, because it was not understood, because its key was sought in words instead of in things; there it is, as a philosophy inspired by it alone should in the end furnish it. In revealing itself to us in its essence, it gives us, along with the reason of our religious and political institutions, the secret of our destiny.

Oh! I understand, Monseigneur, that you do not like liberty, that you have never liked it. Liberty, which you cannot deny without destroying yourself, which you cannot affirm without destroying yourself still, you dread it as the Sphinx dreaded Oedipus: it came, and the riddle of the Church was answered; Christianity is no longer anything other than an episode in the mythology of the human race. Liberty, symbolized by the story of the Temptation, is your Antichrist; liberty, for you, is the Devil.

Come, Satan, come, slandered by priests and kings! Let me embrace you, let me clutch you to my breast! I have known you for a long time, and you know me as well. Your works, oh blessed of my heart, are not always beautiful or good; but you alone give sense to the universe and prevent it from being absurd. What would justice be without you? An instinct. Reason? A routine. Man? A beast. You alone prompt labor and render it fertile; you ennoble wealth, serve as an excuse for authority, put the seal on virtue. Hope still, proscript! I have at your service only a pen, but it is worth millions of ballots. And I wish only to ask when the days sung of by the poet will return:

You crossed gothic ruins; / Our defenders pressed at your heels; / Flowers rained down, and modest virgins / Mingled their songs with the war-hymn. / All stirred, and armed themselves for the defense; / All were proud, above all the poor. / Ah! Give back to me the days of my childhood,/ Goddess of Liberty!

That is, it is entirely within the context of Roman Catholicism and the aversion and reaction to it in the Western World on the part of revolutionaries.

[Jedothek]

I wouldn't call it a mere transition, it's a major world shaking transition that's going to fundamentally alter life on Earth forever. Even if there was a major collapse the world would build itself back up very rapidly. It's hard to imagine anything short of an extinction level event derailing this crazy train, or even slowing it down for any significant stretch of time.

I mostly regard all of human history as one interminably long dark age. So I don't really disagree with you on that. I would point out that it's always the best of times and the worst of times. Life these days is much better for some than it ever has been and is much worse for others than ever before. There's also always a trade off with technological advancement, technology has improved everyone's life in some ways and made it worse in others. What I can say for certain is that there is both more danger and more hope than ever before in the history of the world. We definitely live in interesting times.

No. Things have been getting worse for some time. Your complacent attitude only aids the collapse. The period 410 - 732 CE was worse than the period 1590 - 1912 CE. We need to stop heeding the soporific sounds of persons such as Sivad and discuss ways to oppose the present collapse of civilization.

[annatar1914]

No. Things have been getting worse for some time. Your complacent attitude only aids the collapse. The period 410 - 732 CE was worse than the period 1590 - 1912 CE. We need to stop heeding the soporific sounds of persons such as Sivad and discuss ways to oppose the present collapse of civilization.

@Jedothek

Well, I originally subtitled this thread (only somewhat tongue-in-cheek) as ''or, how I learned to love my inner Barbarian'' (in itself a nod to Kubrick's ''Doctor Strangelove'')... Because I think that Collapse is quite inevitable given my Neo-Spenglerian views on the organic cycles of history, tempered by an awareness that our Faustian/Frankish/Western Civilization is both unique and also is headed on a course towards general conflagration.

So this thread is about surviving the destruction of Western civilization, mitigating the damage, and living free and moral lives in the wake of general decadence, malaise, and degeneration with a measure of young, vital, and somewhat ''barbaric'' lives.