[wat0n]

The discussion is about the current violence.

It is not realistic to claim that violence from the Ottoman Empire is still having an impact.

Really?

Because when we talk about, say, policing in the US some people still argue slavery still has an impact. Specifically, that some police departments are institutionally racist because they were established to catch runaway slaves.

Is this realistic, @Pants-of-dog?

[JohnRawls]

That would be the Roman destruction of Judea following the Bar Kokhba Revolt, in 132 AD.

Aka the Third Roman-Jewish war, note the third in the name Potemkin. Although it was really brutal for sure.

But Hadrian wasn't really the instigator and it all started with Caligula/Claudius/Nero. Actually you know what, it was Caligula he was a real cunt.

[Rich]

But Hadrian wasn't really the instigator and it all started with Caligula/Claudius/Nero. Actually you know what, it was Caligula he was a real cunt.

I have to say I find your faith in the post Claudo-Julian authors touching. I think I would probably describe peoples faith in the IDF and Israeli media as touched rather touching.

[Pants-of-dog]

I do not think Roman actions still have an impact on the ongoing genocide today.

[wat0n]

It seems @Pants-of-dog has no problem breaking up with history when it suits him i.e. to justify massacring Jews.

[Pants-of-dog]

If someone wants to show how the Roman campaigns have anything to do with the current genocide, please do so.

At this point, this seems even less realistic than the claim that the Ottoman empire is a factor.

[wat0n]

Can we say the same about slavery and Jim Crow in the US or history matters only when it suits you, @Pants-of-dog?

[QatzelOk]

If making a lot of money is your goal, it is better to find excuses for Israel's genocide of Palestinians.

...the Roman destruction of Judea following the Bar Kokhba Revolt, in 132 AD.

...Violence against the Jews started somewhere in the early Christian times...

...the Third Roman-Jewish war...

I prefer the direct cause-and-effect of Ron Unz:

...Instead of attacking Hamas, Netanyahu took advantage of the wave of global sympathy by unleashing an unprecedented military assault against Gaza’s more than two million civilians, apparently intending to kill huge numbers of them and drive the remainder into Egypt’s Sinai desert, allowing Israel to annex their territory and resettle it with Jews....

***

I do not think Roman actions still have an impact on the ongoing genocide today.

The official history of the Jews is mainly a fake history meant to provoke tribal loyalty. Rabbis could have you killed for refuting any of the collective propaganda. And much of our Official collective history has been exploited to defend ongoing atrocities by moneyed groups.

Remember how the Germans suddenly became "Aryan" through media exploitation? Aryans also existed (kind of) historically. But this was a propaganda strategy and not rigorous historical analysis.

But I do agree with you that much of the West's political ideation is Roman. As in Machiavellian.

[Pants-of-dog]

The thing about settler colonialism is that it requires the dismantling of former systems of governance. Since all precious systems of governance were removed by the current structure of settler colonialism, it would be very difficult for these previous systems of governance to have much impact on the current genocide, if any.

[wat0n]

As a matter of fact, this is not true. Even today, in Israel and across the region, there are Ottoman laws still on the books, particularly the Millet system. Ottoman property deeds are also still valid and use in courts across formerly Ottoman territory.

Furthermore, by this token the systems of governance of both slavery and Jim Crow in the US were already dismantled. Yet you still claim they matter.

[Pants-of-dog]

Please show exactly which Ottoman laws are still being used by Israel and how they impact the ongoing genocide. thanks.

[wat0n]

That's a loaded question since there's no genocide.

But if you want to understand the impact of Ottoman law on the conflict, you can always read some history about the different classification of land under Ottoman civil law.

[Rich]

Can we say the same about slavery and Jim Crow in the US or history matters only when it suits you, @Pants-of-dog?

The Romans were famously tough on slave rebellions and tough on the causes of slave rebellions. Well to be honest I guess their emphasis was more on the former than the latter. Now I'm known for being relaxed about ancient Roman slavery. If i lose my citizenship and get sent on a one way trip in a time machine back to Ancient Rome, don't expect me to lift a finger to try and abolish slavery. If I were trapped in that part of the time space continuum I would be very happy if I could get myself set up as a slave owning Equestrian.

So if I'm so relaxed about Roman slavery why am I so critical of the American Founders and their early political leaders. Because the Romans didn't whine, the Americans did. Nat Turners men really did cut the heads off of babies. And the biologically racial Europeans whined like bitches about it. I have no problem with Nat Turner ordering his men to cut the heads off European babies. Although not a major virtue signaler I do think the name of America's capital should be changed to Nat Turner City.

There's nothing specifically anti Jewish about my sentiments. It doesn't matter that Madeleine Albright was Jewish. This is peripheral to the main point. She was US ambassador to the UN when she said that the deaths of half a million Arab and Kurdish Muslim children were worth it. That's fine I support free speech, but don't be surprised if some Muslims and some Arabs make a different calculation. Don't be surprised if some Muslims look for vengeance. And that's why I had absolutely zero tolerance for the wave of "poor us" whining that followed 9/11.

Is the occupation / blockade /control of Gaza and the West Bank over the last more than half a century as bad as plantation slavery? Obviously not. Is is as bad as the claimed effect of the sanctions upon Iraq? Again obviously not. But the same judgement still applies. It seems the claims of babies heads being chopped off were pure propaganda, but so what if t had been true. In my book Israelis would have had zero right whine about it. It seems the claims of systematic mass rape were also pure propaganda, but again so what if had been true? Warfare is about inflicting death, destruction, injury and suffering upon the enemy.

Sure if you can get some nice quick clean military victory and get the enemy to accede to your demands that is preferable. But a lot conflicts are just not like that. I just don't get why killing tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands or millions of people like we did in the 2nd World war is OK, but for some reason systematic mass rape is taboo.

[Pants-of-dog]

So no examples of Ottoman law having any impact on the modern conflict.

As I argued, and as reality seems to show.

[wat0n]

So no examples of Ottoman law having any impact on the modern conflict.

As I argued, and as reality seems to show.

The property ownership problems of today originated in the Ottoman era. This is not a controversial or even "Zionist" take.

[Pants-of-dog]

Please show exactly which Ottoman laws are still being used by Israel and how they impact the ongoing genocide. thanks.

[wat0n]

There is no genocide so there's no need to address that.

Since property claims come from the Ottoman era, Ottoman law has quite a big importance in demands for property restitution/compensation.

[Pants-of-dog]

How does this have anything to do with the current conflict? Be specific.

[JohnRawls]

If making a lot of money is your goal, it is better to find excuses for Israel's genocide of Palestinians.





I prefer the direct cause-and-effect of Ron Unz:



***



The official history of the Jews is mainly a fake history meant to provoke tribal loyalty. Rabbis could have you killed for refuting any of the collective propaganda. And much of our Official collective history has been exploited to defend ongoing atrocities by moneyed groups.

Remember how the Germans suddenly became "Aryan" through media exploitation? Aryans also existed (kind of) historically. But this was a propaganda strategy and not rigorous historical analysis.

But I do agree with you that much of the West's political ideation is Roman. As in Machiavellian.

You remind me of this Qatz. Its pretty long but you can watch for couple of minutes. @Saeko You like this kind off stuff you can check the whole series.

[wat0n]

How does this have anything to do with the current conflict? Be specific.

It directly impacts right of return and general property claims.

This is also one of the sticking points in the conflict.