[ingliz]

@Verv

"a certain issue"

Passing white ...

As racial identity is a fundamental determinant of various social outcomes in the United States, it's no wonder people game the system.

You can't blame those who can choose their race identifying as the 'race' most beneficial for them. Studies have found that Americans who initially self-classify as mixed race or specifically select the “other” racial category exhibit far and away the highest rates of change. Across-survey averages for these categories are 52 per cent and 73 per cent, respectively.

Multiracial identities sort into monoracial identities over time.

And as mixed race marriages are on the rise in America that will be a problem for @FiveofSwords.

[Verv]

@Verv

"a certain issue"

Passing white ...

As racial identity is a fundamental determinant of various social outcomes in the United States, it's no wonder people game the system.

You can't blame those who can choose their race identifying as the 'race' most beneficial for them. Studies have found that Americans who initially self-classify as mixed race or specifically select the “other” racial category exhibit far and away the highest rates of change. Across-survey averages for these categories are 52 per cent and 73 per cent, respectively.

Multiracial identities sort into monoracial identities over time.

Naturally - a significant amount of people self-identify as White, and self-identiy as part Native... Many of them fraudulently, because they gain prestige & attention by being part native.

Of course, "passing" and "identifying" as white was once very vital to success, and it would certainly be socially preferable to be able to blend into the majority in a lot of situations... I remember a light-skinned Mexican in high school who was guarded about his identity... But this is even why it becomes preferable to be Mexican when you fill out scholarship and job applications: because white people understand that it is stressful to not be white around them.

Which is a blessing.

I do not want to pat myself on the back for this - but I am happy for this as the father of a mixed race kid...

Of course, it's not perfect, and I do feel somewhat cautious about it occasionally because I know the opinions of many White Americans, Christians and especially Protestants & Jews about Muslims, we still have a long way to go...

I also predict this:

Latinos will divide into light-skinned ones who become fully assimilated and counted as "White," just how Italians eventually were, and into darker skinned ones who begin to identify as indigenous... And, of course, the comedy will be that a huge amount of dark skinned Latinos will self-identify as white, and light-skinned ones as Indigenous. This will give rural folk, autistic people, and socially clumsy folks interminable headaches, but I say... Any brown-skinned man who wants to call himself my white is white. I have no reason to guard the identity and... I am flattered.

And if my light-skinned daughter wants to insist she is brown I will smile wryly and say "You know I am white, though, right?" and step out of the way...

It's not my business.

I always let people define themselves.

And I will never judge an individual by their color, or by their self-identification, only by their values... First, how they live their values, and secondarily, the values they say they have.

[Rich]

So race historically was used as labels for human populations. These labels could apply to very large human populations such as "White", "Black", "East Asian" or to smaller population groups such as the Anglo Saxons. Now some of these racial categories may have a greater physical basis some may have less. Race is best thought of as a many dimensional mathematical space, where each of those dimensions is a population distribution for a particular characteristic. Today those characteristics can be phenotypic or genomic. Genomic characteristics can themselves be divided up into Mitochondrial and Lysosomal, Y chromosome and regular nucleic DNA. Obviously when the term race evolved, there was no access to genomic information. In the future there may be identifiable epi genetic characteristics.

The point about population distributions is important. We have evolved to live in diverse communities. Modest differences between the means of a population distribution can lead to dramatic differences in the tails of the distribution.

But lets examine the races of America historically labelled Black, White and Red. When the White people went to the Americas the Red people started dying in horrific numbers. When the White people started importing Black people into the Americas the Red people started dying even faster. Something similar happened when so called White people went to South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. However when the White people tried going into the land of the so called Black people in tropical Africa, it was the White people that died in horrific numbers.

Any White person who went to tropical Africa under the delusion that race was a purely social construct was very likely to recieve a rude awakening, very likely followed by a rude adeathening.

[FiveofSwords]

So you study them by deducing them.



Okay. So does money exist?

At this point. it would seem that you agree that it exists as a social construct.



Race exists the same way money does: as a social construct.

So when you say that we claim it does not exist, that is incorrect and as stupid as saying that we are saying money does not exist.

Yeah, seems like the same thing to me. Money does not occur in nature. Humans just make it up and we all agree to pretend like money exists simply because it is useful to facilitate trade.

And certainly if you say 'race exists to benefit white people' then that comment just fails based on simple aristotelian logic...because it is resting on the assumption that white people exist outside of race while simultaneously declaring that they cannot. It would be comparable to suggesting that money is a grand conspiracy made up to benefit the dollar.

Meanwhile I, of course, believe race is defined by very real and observable genetic differences. People of different races actually look different.and people of different races actually adapted genetically to their own particular way of life. They have distinct talents, propensities, and even aesthetics.

You guys apparently do not believe that life forms can adapt to particular ways of life, which of course violates the most basic foundations of evolutionary biology. But then again, you guys consistently display a revealed preference that it is more important to be anti racist than it is to be correct. So this sort of insanity really doesn't surprise me anymore.

[ingliz]

@FiveofSwords

So you are back to using skin colour as your go-to tool for differentiating between the races.

The only problem is between populations with light skin and those with the darkest colouration are populations with various shades of light tan to brown. The cline in skin colours shows variation by infinite degrees; any attempts to place boundaries along this cline represent purely arbitrary decisions.

and

Any pretence your racism is 'scientific' goes out of the window.

[FiveofSwords]

Naturally - a significant amount of people self-identify as White, and self-identiy as part Native... Many of them fraudulently, because they gain prestige & attention by being part native.

Of course, "passing" and "identifying" as white was once very vital to success, and it would certainly be socially preferable to be able to blend into the majority in a lot of situations... I remember a light-skinned Mexican in high school who was guarded about his identity... But this is even why it becomes preferable to be Mexican when you fill out scholarship and job applications: because white people understand that it is stressful to not be white around them.

Which is a blessing.

I do not want to pat myself on the back for this - but I am happy for this as the father of a mixed race kid...

Of course, it's not perfect, and I do feel somewhat cautious about it occasionally because I know the opinions of many White Americans, Christians and especially Protestants & Jews about Muslims, we still have a long way to go...

I also predict this:

Latinos will divide into light-skinned ones who become fully assimilated and counted as "White," just how Italians eventually were, and into darker skinned ones who begin to identify as indigenous... And, of course, the comedy will be that a huge amount of dark skinned Latinos will self-identify as white, and light-skinned ones as Indigenous. This will give rural folk, autistic people, and socially clumsy folks interminable headaches, but I say... Any brown-skinned man who wants to call himself my white is white. I have no reason to guard the identity and... I am flattered.

And if my light-skinned daughter wants to insist she is brown I will smile wryly and say "You know I am white, though, right?" and step out of the way...

It's not my business.

I always let people define themselves.

And I will never judge an individual by their color, or by their self-identification, only by their values... First, how they live their values, and secondarily, the values they say they have.

Being white 'passing' was never vital for success.

It was only vital for being treated like a citizen of a white country. It just so happened that white countries were also the most successful. And tgat was mostly thanks to technological innovation from white people..without which our global domination could not have been possible (in fact it would be absurd to consider since Europe is the smallest continent with the smallest amount of natural resources)

[Pants-of-dog]

Yeah, seems like the same thing to me. Money does not occur in nature. Humans just make it up and we all agree to pretend like money exists simply because it is useful to facilitate trade.

Exactly. Race does not occur in nature. Humans just make it up and we all agree to pretend like race exists simply because it is useful to facilitate hierarchies in capitalism.

And certainly if you say 'race exists to benefit white people' then that comment just fails based on simple aristotelian logic...because it is resting on the assumption that white people exist outside of race while simultaneously declaring that they cannot. It would be comparable to suggesting that money is a grand conspiracy made up to benefit the dollar.

Since I have already explained many times that race exists, saying that I think that race does not exist is incorrect.

Meanwhile I, of course, believe race is defined by very real and observable genetic differences. People of different races actually look different.and people of different races actually adapted genetically to their own particular way of life. They have distinct talents, propensities, and even aesthetics.

You guys apparently do not believe that life forms can adapt to particular ways of life, which of course violates the most basic foundations of evolutionary biology. But then again, you guys consistently display a revealed preference that it is more important to be anti racist than it is to be correct. So this sort of insanity really doesn't surprise me anymore.

You do not know what I believe.

[QatzelOk]

There is no country for white people...

There is no country for Gay people. There is no country for Tall people. There is no country for Autistic people.

But there IS a country for Jewish people, and it's been slaughtering the locals for its entire existence. Is this what you are seeking? A socially-constructed nation-state for the melanin-lacking? Perhaps the darker skin tones can be deported, and the locals can be given free #60 sunscreen so they can keep their citizenship?

A few hundred years ago, the Bretons had their own nation within France: Brittany. Of course, they were part of France, but they spoke their own language and had their own customs and group cohesion.

This was destroyed by Napoleon and the Revolution in order to create a mono-lingual entity like Britain had become. Better war-coordination was possible with fewer languages. Culture: in this case, not important because it can be changed to something more modern through propaganda and law.

Why don't you dedicate your life to preserving local cultures, rather than pining after a monochromatic nation-state? Isn't it the local cultures that are a response to local conditions? Wouldn't that lead to a more diverse world of many more cultures to choose from?

***

...Were the Japanese genetically Aryan all of a sudden? Or were the Nazi ideologists treating race as a politically and socially useful tool, in other words, as a social construct?

Social construction means "fake." Whereas "local cultures" are not fake, they are a real response to local conditions, including the limits of the local environment to provide long-term sustenance.

[Tainari88]

No, @FiveofSwords the insanity is not realizing that variation is a bedrock principle of evolutionary theory--the one that Charles Darwin has discussed and in which Malthus and Gregor Mendel of the pea experiment was given. Variation in all living organisms is a survival mechanism in order to respond to a threat from nature. What are the threats? Not a color that even Stormfront can't really define. The threat from Mother Nature is a disease. Diseases vary as well according to which geographical environment your particular human group has adapted to over thousands of years. In the case of light-skinned Europeans it was an ice age Europe and blue eyes (which exist in Northern Japan as well) are adapted to cold environments. It helps you see better at night. That is an advantage if you are living near the Northern Hemisphere. The light skin has the advantage of taking advantage of vitamin D which is available in dark, long winters. Every one of the supposedly obvious differences in race has a purpose to be there in the natural world. There are also parts of genetics that really have no real purpose. At least not known by professional geneticists who are still trying to figure out why it is there.

So making an enormous leap saying that because a person has a certain physical appearance adapted to a survival mechanism that is there to make sure you have the best chance or opportunity to be successful to a land base, is not the same as saying having that physical adaptation means that you are less intelligent, less talented, less capable at this or that. That varies a lot. Because @Potemkin did mention that there is more variation within an ethnic group than between one and the other. He is right about that. That variation is such an integral part of being human makes sense. Perfect sense. Because in the natural world, variation is the best way to respond to tragedy regarding disease. Disease as we all know is devastating. It can kill off entire civilizations and has in the past. The Aztec, the ones in Europe during the Black Plague and many others who tend to come around once every 100 years or so to winnow off the herd of humans occupying the land. Like it does to deer, and other herds. It is nature's way of restoring a balance.

Humans are interesting in that they come up with ways to survive those natural mechanisms of population control. Like vaccines, and modern medicine. But even those can be inadequate when Mother Nature does something like natural disasters and fires, and many other disasters that have befallen humanity over the millennia.

Humans have to vary. That one group feels threatened with dying off because of a racist interpretation of human life is not natural. It is TAUGHT. There are enormous amounts of evidence that humans do not naturally learn their culture at all. Most animals do have instinctual aspects and we share those with the animal kingdom. But we share a human based cultural matrix. That is a socially acquired aspect. We are not born with it. It is shaped by our social and economic structures and environments. Our language is socially learned. We learn foreign languages. We learn religious ceremonies, and cultural aspects of life. It is very flexible. You can change it and shape it to fit a paradigm or a socially learned mythology like nationality or patriotic sentiments. I already wrote about how early tribes or bands would share their lives with other members of their group. Maybe 25 members to about 75 pr 150 members faces of a tribe are easily identifiable and recognizable, many can be blood family members but many integrated into the tribe through marriage with other ethnic groups who live nearby. In modern societies like New York City or Houston or Los Angeles, Miami, and other large urban centers, you have millions of faces of strangers of whom we have no knowledge of who they are, how they live their lives or what they do on a daily basis. We have zero emotional ties to those people. If they die in some car accident and we drive by the scene, we might be intrigued about how that happened to help us avoid the dangers but we probably would not shed a tear for that victim because we did not know them personally. Yet somehow the myth of our Germanness or our Italianness, or Whiteness or whatever generic term is supposed to create a sense of attachment to that person, and override identification on an economic level, of being working class, or being Christian, or being women, or being young, or old, or any other specific state or role we might take up in our quest for empathetic human identification without knowing our fellow humans.

It is weak argumentation in the extreme what you are proposing. You reject a natural law of nature that bakes in variation and it is for our own human species survival and you want to simplify it with a label like Whiteness. Which you have a hard time distinguishing. Others have stated that the National Socialists are seeing threats in religious and ethnic groups like a semitic group like the Jews, and see them as a threat. Giving them general cultural characteristics and generalizing in broad terms who they are as an entire group.

You use socially constructed forms of categorizing people. But want to claim it is scientific. Then you say that there are no countries that are fighting for exclusive white people only apartheid or having a nation who will take up the banner of white national socialism in its totality. Germany had real historical greivances when Hitler came to power. They had lost WWI, were in shambles economically, felt internationally humiliated, were competing with the UK and France and others with colonial land that were being extracted for Imperialistic wealth and Germany was left out mostly....and was losing a lot of prestige and land and so on...in their own minds. They were in their ancient lands and Germany was a mother culture to many other countries in Europe. English is a Germanic language rooted language, see Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue the History of the English language, it was a language associated with the lower commoner in the England of the Middle Ages. The elite spoke Latin and French. People speaking Old English were seen as mostly illiterate peasants with zero prestige. It changed with history due to certain conditions.

It could easily have been a different story too.

No, you are aggrieved about a false notion of what nature is about, human culture is about, evolution is about, and you want to separate yourself from what is your only real protection in this world. Do you know what that is?

The real protection in this world is the hard work, and innovation, creativity and survival mechanisms anchored in the variations of cultures, languages and peoples of the entire world. That is your real treasure trove of survival and you NEED them to live, and you NEED them to vary, and you NEED them to be who they are, not living in fear and with war and poverty and deprivation, but in dignity, respect, well educated and full of vitality and life. So you can draw on their collective wisdom in case your group is in danger and is threatened by disease, or by war or by famine or by need. That is what you need.

Again, the 9% are not the majority. The vast wealth generated by the 91% is what everyone already depends on to live in the present world. You have a snowball chance in hell of trying to get them to disappear or not exist or not reproduce or not do their best to continue on in the struggle for human existence--which is Charles Darwin's first requirement. Struggle for existence. That is what the African Americans had to do in those slave ships. That is what the white Irish indentured servants had to do in those ships from Ireland during the Irish Potato Famine in the 1840s and that is what the Chinese had to do during the Opium Wars, and the Aztecs and Meshica had to do in 1521.

All of the human 'races' had to earn their right to exist in the here and now. To brush that off and say, the White Race has to be the center of all? Is the height of arrogance and not only that? It is not true. None of us as a 'race' have a right to infringe on the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness of any other human group. Ever. We only commit folly to believe such nonsense. It creates resentment, and ignorance. How can we know what we hate about any other human culture or group if we do not know them well enough to make a sound judgment?

In Anthropology you have to do what is called Thick Description and you go into a certain culture and you do what they do, and you eat what they eat and you communicate and learn their native language, and you follow their rules, and you do everything to understand the experience they have. Once you do that all the shit you thought was crazy or irrelevant and nonsensical as an outsider, starts to make sense. Why? Because we are essentially HUMAN. We just changed our costumes and our props and our symbols and our myths and our values for a while....and yet there is something familiar to all of it in the end.

The OTHER is I and I am the OTHER. That is what being human is. The Nazis are fighting their own humanity in a vain attempt to try to reach some ideal that never existed. They should work on their lack of compassion, lack of respect for variation and lack of respect for knowing the Mother Nature is far more powerful than we ever will be. Trying to control what is far more powerful than we ever could hope to become? Is hubris. And like the Ancient Greeks always have known....HUBRIS is a mortal failing of humanity. A dangerous one.

None of the Greeks or the Romans were from a Germanic Root. The Romance languages like Spanish are the children of the Roman Empire. Nothing primitive about that culture. And it is in all of Latin America. We are all very much like @QatzelOk mentioned, the French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and others, are all racial mixers. Because of the way we interpret the world.

And for historical reasons as well.

I do not give a fuck if you ignore this post or you read it or do not read it. I do not write to bring knowledge to people who refuse to acknowledge anything of import for fear of foolish pride and fear of not being right.

I do it for people who like reading about the reason why Nazis believe something about human behavior and others who disagree do not agree with the Nazis.

Debating is about contrasting points of view anyway.

Life is beautiful and important for us all. Any political philosophy that seeks for all of the variations of being human to fit into a box is not thinking deeply at all.

[FiveofSwords]

There is no country for Gay people. There is no country for Tall people. There is no country for Autistic people.

But there IS a country for Jewish people, and it's been slaughtering the locals for its entire existence. Is this what you are seeking? A socially-constructed nation-state for the melanin-lacking? Perhaps the darker skin tones can be deported, and the locals can be given free #60 sunscreen so they can keep their citizenship?

A few hundred years ago, the Bretons had their own nation within France: Brittany. Of course, they were part of France, but they spoke their own language and had their own customs and group cohesion.

This was destroyed by Napoleon and the Revolution in order to create a mono-lingual entity like Britain had become. Better war-coordination was possible with fewer languages. Culture: in this case, not important because it can be changed to something more modern through propaganda and law.

Why don't you dedicate your life to preserving local cultures, rather than pining after a monochromatic nation-state? Isn't it the local cultures that are a response to local conditions? Wouldn't that lead to a more diverse world of many more cultures to choose from?

***



Social construction means "fake." Whereas "local cultures" are not fake, they are a real response to local conditions, including the limits of the local environment to provide long-term sustenance.

When I say there is no country for white people, I mean none of them. There is no country for any 'local' nor 'macroscopic' white people or white culture. Nothing.

As a nationalist, I do believe that people who have a sense of a common legacy and a common destiny should also have self determination. They should be in control of their own destiny, since they all share it

This is true for both white people as a whole (who are currently under attack as a whole) as well as for any 'local' community.

The common legacy and common destiny of a nation is what makes it different from being 'tall' or 'having melanin'...which are just random genetic traits and are not fundamental to identiny or nationhood.

I would expect any nation to be unhappy with being ruled by a foreign nation. Thus I can certainly understand why the various people the Europeans colonized wanted to be free and independent. I would not be impressed if Gandhi just said he wanted to be ruled by people with more melanin...that would be stupid and it is not an authentic people or an authentic nation.

I can certainly understand why jews would want their own country...that seems like a perfectly natural impulse...but I do not think they should have one as long as they still dominate western countries. The usa certainly doesn't care one bit about white americans...who were the founding stock of the usa...but it cares deeply for jewish people and for israel...largely because zionists are the biggest political donors. Therefore the usa is basically a country whose purpose is to serve jews...while white Americans si.ply have no country at all.

Considering that, jews have to valid claim to Israel. It is at best a fun vacation resort for the jews who own the usa, or possibly a place for jewish pedophiles and criminals to flee to so they won't have to deal with local legal customs of the western countries they own.

So I feel perfectly justified in having a double standard for jewish people and the legitimacy of a jewish state. I resent ehat they have done to all the countries of my own people...I am justifiably angry about it...so I do not support the criminal state of Israel or indeed ANY hypothetical institution that cares about the welfare or self determination of jews. I would support something like that for literally any other nation, but not for the Jewish nation because jews would never support that for my own nation. The planet simply is not big enough for both of us.

[Deutschmania]

During WWII, the Nazi Party ideologists in Germany designated the Japanese as ‘Honorary Aryans’. What do you think that meant, @FiveofSwords? Were the Japanese genetically Aryan all of a sudden? Or were the Nazi ideologists treating race as a politically and socially useful tool, in other words, as a social construct?

The way that National Socialists categorized various people was arbitrarily subjective . I mean Slavic people , for their purposes were not considered to be Aryan , however white looking they were . And , per the Nuremberg Laws , anyone with 1/8 or less Jewish descent , such as myself , would be considered to be German blooded , but anyone with substantial more than this would've been deemed a Mischling , or perhaps even a Jew . And the National Socialists couldn't even automatically tell just be looking whom was and wasn't a Jew . This was why the yellow star patch was designed . And here were examples where even the National Socialists were fooled , Hessy Levinsons , and Werner Goldberg . Neither of these were German blooded , according to the Nuremberg Laws , yet the authorities still couldn't tell the difference .

[wat0n]

One can also consider the nonsensical race tests used both in Apartheid South Africa and some Southern states to prove "race". And even then, the Southern states would use the one-drop rule.

[Tainari88]

Well folks, the white Americans are stateless. They have no country. They are just puppets of some powerful Jews. The Jews control the world and that is why Washington DC is their puppet and not the other way around.

The Holocaust did not happen.

Swordy is not worried about Melanin but he said this:

This is true for both white people as a whole (who are currently under attack as a whole) as well as for any 'local' community.

The White People are under attack right now. Where? We have asked for the violence being perpetrated against them? Is it the January 6th people who are under attack or the other way around?

Where are the Whites being attacked in the USA fo being white and all over the world?

Take a survey, 'white English people where are you being bullied out of your homes, and denied food and drink and jobs and money and being able to survive right now due to the way you look, which is WHITE. Where is this persecution of being white? Bring on the evidence!'

It never happens.

You point out all the problems African Americans had getting equal rights to happen in the USA. Ignored or denied. Rights for others. No, only white people matter because they built the USA. The slaves, immigrants, Mexican farm workers in the Southwest and in California working for peanuts in the hot sun in farms and fields, and in landscaping, and in restaurants, hotels, and in physical labor being paid shit for their work. No, that is not real nation building. Only the white Nazis sweat is valid for building the nation up. Not the traditions of Native Indian peoples who are just a bunch of savages and dummies. No.

I really do not respect people who have zero idea of what it takes to build a nation. it is not one or two people and ethnicities. It is a lot of people. The USA has a lot of diversity due to the amount of people who fled a dysfunctional Europe and a dysfunctional world that lived with class conscious badly exploitative practices in general. That is never significant for the Nazi system. It is all about glory to one color and one people. Everyone else is doing damage.

This is why they are not a good political option. Never learned how to value what they have in a world that has a lot of labor that is not from their group making their lives livable. It is all invisible to their closed selves.

According to the Judge who sentenced Peyton Genron there for his shooting of 10 black people at the TOPS store, the problem has been too many privileges given to White Americans at the expense of everyone else for too long. Creating resentment in the White people who think their privileges are under threat. And they think the answer is to double down on the racism. When they should be doing the opposite.

But such is life. They will learn why they are not going to get far. They missed the boat a long time ago.

Some kid from Stormfront got a lot of years. A-1 Felony.

The government of the USA kills millions in wars and invasions. All for the right to rule people without their consent. They never get justice. Because it is the government that does it. But the truth is that criminal wars of conquest justify murder that would get you a life sentence in civil society, in a war? Like in WWII or in other wars happening right now. The people making the decisions are all about plausible deniability.

Looks like the Nazis share that with the government. Plausible deniability.

[ingliz]

@Tainari88

@FiveofSwords appears to have suffered some form of brain trauma - His short-term memory is shot.

It was only a few pages ago I mentioned his desire to kill Jews and he denied he had ever entertained such thoughts. Now a day or so later, after an anti-semitic rant, he says and I quote, "The planet simply is not big enough for both of us [Whites and Jews]."

I fear our engaging with him is feeding his delusions.

[FiveofSwords]

During WWII, the Nazi Party ideologists in Germany designated the Japanese as ‘Honorary Aryans’. What do you think that meant, @FiveofSwords? Were the Japanese genetically Aryan all of a sudden? Or were the Nazi ideologists treating race as a politically and socially useful tool, in other words, as a social construct?

National socialists obviously were not saying Japanese are the same race as germans because that would be absurd. But they did divide people into 2 distinct 'kinds' of civilizational strategies: people who build their own civilization and people who just exploit the civilization builders. The germans also labeled China as civilization builders, fyi...despite the fact their relation with China was not exactly friendly. Also, there did exist certain people who adopted a rather mystical concept of race such as evola and to a lesser extent spengler. Predictably, those sorts of fascists also traded to come from the more elitist strain of fascism rather than the more socialist and scientific types. The whole subject is actually rather complicated and nuanced and not at all as reductionist as you pretend.

[Pants-of-dog]

The USA has never been a white country, despite the myths.

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88

@FiveofSwords appears to have suffered some form of brain trauma - His short-term memory is shot.

It was only a few pages ago I mentioned his desire to kill Jews and he denied he had ever entertained such thoughts. Now a day or so later, after an anti-semitic rant, he says and I quote, "The planet simply is not big enough for both of us [Whites and Jews]."

I fear our engaging with him is feeding his delusions.

They are like that Ingliz.

My mother had to cope with KKK members in Oklahoma. They were angry because some of their youth chased down some Mexican kids in a truck while they were filling up with gasoline in a Seven Eleven gas station in Oklahoma. They were shooting at the Mexican kids calling them slurs and names. One of the passenger side of the truck Mexican kids had a gun. He shot back at the KKK youth. His shot killed one of those white kids who were filled with hatred of Mexicans and who started the entire incident to begin with.

There was a law in Oklahoma that said if someone from your vehicle kills someone else dead in another moving vehicle then ALL of the people in the truck can get the maximum sentence in the state of Oklahoma. In the state of Oklahoma shooting someone dead from a moving vehicle into another moving vehicle is an A-1 Felony. But the law also says everyone in the truck is sentenced the same. Including a 16 year old Mexican kid who was picking vegetables in the sun and just was hitching a ride and never shot off a single shot in the whole incident. Well, the entire six kids got the DEATH SENTENCE for daring to kill one of the KKK white youth who started the entire scene. The kid was a minor and had nothing to do with a damn thing. He was sentenced as an adult to death row.

My mother helped with the case. She used international law. Mexico has no death sentences for any crime at all. And the kid was a Mexican citizen. There was a fight for the kid's life. His mother in Mexico was upset. He was only sixteen years old. And he was on death row in Oklahoma. So, she started helping get the kid out of there. And the KKK was steaming mad. Left messages on her answering machine about you wetback we will find out if you have a green card. And so on. Mom answered the messages left on her answering machine--the only green card I have is an American Express card and it is expired. We are going to kill you Wetback bitch! Etc etc.

For them all of us Latinos are all Mexican Aztecs. They do not differentiate between Puerto Ricans or Mexicans or Costa Ricans or Argentineans or Chileans, or anyone that is Spanish speaking. All one people. And they look like a Mariachi. It is ridiculous, racist, small minded stuff Ingliz.

Mom, kept on going on. My Uncle had a girlfriend who was a Puerto Rican travel agent and air hostess retired. She needed to borrow my mother's old Subaru for some errands. She got in the station wagon and drove on the highway. The KKK freaks shot at her car and almost killed her and the windshield was damaged. She never wanted to borrow my mother's car ever again for any reason.

They talk about how they are not violent, poor me, victims, and they are discriminated against for being white. Their sob stories of woe.

They are racist. They discriminate and they are violent. No doubt about that at all.

Many are just people who are working class and think the answer is a white homeland and to be gone from the capitalist system in some Racist Paradise far from the authority of the US government. They never think internationalism and cooperation with the rest of the world for better wages or better circumstances works. They are really angry, paranoid, people with a lot of problems.

I have very little sympathy. My other Auntie who is my mother's younger sister was a black belt in Judo and very volatile and she said to me that if they had been successful in killing my mother she would have shot them all dead as a doornail without pity. Even though she is a vegetarian and supposedly peace loving...but she has the most fiery temper of all the family. Reactive like a volcano and she told me 'If they had taken out my sister? I would have killed them all.' She is a crack shot with a gun. Won a bunch of marksmanship awards. And she has green eyes, white as snow skin and looks white as can be. But she is not. Would have blended in to the crowd and killed them in their own rally.

That is what happens with these people. They think there are no real consequences to killing people who they disagree with.

My mother did battle with the law and with organizing people well, also radio programs and in leadership roles of organizations.

She was very effective in her ways. She was targeted by the government for advocating for independence.

She never believed you need a gun to make change happen.

The Nazis are people with fake grievances and play the victim but they are the aggressors and cry all the time with their sob stories of being left behind. They never can prove their White Genocide narratives. With facts about people in their political group dying like flies over environmental pollution and being persecuted and blacklisted from jobs for being Nazis and outing themselves. They attend college, go to school in peace, go to work for their Nazi sympathy friends and hardcore undercover racist Right wing Proud boy types. The January 6th people were mostly well off financially and had jobs and responsibilities and property. Not some ghetto dwellers. Yet, they have it bad....yeah, whatever.

[Rich]

The German Nazis and to some extent the Japanese were the culmination of a perfect storm of extremist great power militarism and extreme racism. One vital factor that always seems to get missed or more likely deliberately not talked about was the multiculturalism of early 20th century Germany. Germany was divided between Protestants and Catholics. This division was exacerbated by Bismark's ill fated anti Catholic Kulturkampf. Germany was also on the leading edge for atheism. Added to this there was a small but important Pagan movement. What united Lutheran, Catholic, atheist and Pagan? Not much really. This was why there was a need to define themselves against the Jews. Lutheran, Catholic, Atheist and Pagan can then all be seen as expressions of a common un-Jewishness.

Now some of you may well protest that the Nazis and the other Jew hater's theories (presuming they are even worthy of being called theories) about the Jews were abject nonsense. But so what? If humans have an ideological / psychological need for a belief, they won't let the fact that the belief is abject nonsense stand in their way.

These days we associate antipathy and hatred towards Jews with the right, with the extreme right, but this was not always so. Jew and capitalist were often synonymous. In Capital Marx talks about the good C-M-C and the evil M-C-M. Marx doesn't say good and evil, he writes in a dry abstract language, but the implication is clear money - commodity - money is evil exploitation. And that Money-Commodity-Money was associated with "The Jew". This is why Marx loathes Jewishness with a passion although he was descended from Jews.

The Nazi movement was birthed in the German trenches of World War I. The mass warfare of world war 1 and 2 was inescapably socialist, although not exactly egalitarian it did a lot to break down traditional social class separation. Capitalist Jewishness was seen in opposition to German socialist militarism. Marx's successors invented the theory of Imperialism. Imperialist Finance Capital, "the driver of wars" was also seen as Jewish.

And here is the irony. The great slur against "The Jew" was that he couldn't farm and he couldn't fight. That he was parasite who could only live and thrive by his financial manipulation of others. The resentment, hatred and murder of Jews by Europeans led to the Zionist movement and the creation of Israel. Many laughed at the Jews ability to fight. Well they're not laughing now. Israel has proved to be one of the greatest warrior nations of all time. The right hook air assault that initiated the six day war was the Schliefen plan done right. The Jewish nation has also proved remarkably adept at farming and having proved so good at farming they naturally want more land to farm on. So now the complaint is that the Jews are too keen on land and farming and too good at fighting in order to get it.

[Verv]

Being white 'passing' was never vital for success.

It was only vital for being treated like a citizen of a white country. It just so happened that white countries were also the most successful. And tgat was mostly thanks to technological innovation from white people..without which our global domination could not have been possible (in fact it would be absurd to consider since Europe is the smallest continent with the smallest amount of natural resources)

This is... not entirely wrong, I think, because Jews were viewed as racial aliens and were very successful, so much so that when Mary Phagan was murdered in 1913, the Jews were able to rally much of America against the state of Georgia during the trial with claims of anti-Semitism. Yes, you read that right, most Americans were against the perception of being anti-Semitic in 1913 and it was a powerful accusation towards the Georgian courts that they were unfairly trying Leo Frank. Of course, much ink was spilt to make these accusations stick because there were perfectly valid reasons to suspect Frank and, the comedy of it, was that the Leo Frank defense capitalized off of racist tropes against the janitor they suggested as the real murderer...

I suppose it existed on a sort of continuum: Jews were alraedy perceived as having business savvy and thus doing business with them would be acceptable, but imagine a black American trying to make it... He might have faced certain barriers to success.

It is also noteworthy that significant businesses were operating on the West Coast in the 1930s that were owned by Japanese companies, and this only changed when we went to war with Japan. So, it could be said that even very alien Asian peoples who were extreme minorities in this period outside of Hawaii were expriencing fiscal success and doing business with white Americans in the early part of the 20th century, which might also be surprising to grug-tier Leftoids who think that everywhere before 1967 was angry wypipo leering at the Coloreds and spitting as they walk by, with women clutching their pearls and locking the doors to the General Goods stores when they saw a minority coming...

There is truth in what you say here.

Nonetheless, in-group preference is real.

[Verv]

The USA has never been a white country, despite the myths.

- "USA was never a white country!"

The liberal man smiles and quietly looks at you, satisfied that he can back this up by pointing out that there has always been a sizable black and indigenous population. Even if it spent two centuries with whites comprising in excess of 85% of the population, it wouldn't matter. He'd start talking about Irish people as non-white or some shit. Plus a forest of pine trees that is only 85% pines is not a pine forest, I guess.

- "USA was founded on white supremacy."

The liberal man can now switch to the narrative that the entire structure of the United States as a political & social entity is founded on white supremacy that must be dismantled. Of course, the whites who controlled & maintained this structure for 200+ years without challenge and who STILL maintain the white supremacist state in some way, will be given no credit for the status of the USA as a sole superpower that has had an amazing and permanent impact on everyone that is largely benevolent - the only legacy of white people in America is white supremacy... But it does make you think how a country can be white supremacist from top to bottom and also never be white.

You can't argue with this stuff.

You just have to make sure it's framed properly.