1.) The F-22 Program is not being ended. Production is simply being capped. There's a difference.
2.) This Budget Proposal still has to get through Congress (and the Air Force to a lesser degree), with the amount of support the F-22 has its doubtful that production will be capped indefinitely. In all honesty it makes sense that it at least be halted while the economic crisis is allowed to pass.
3.) If anyone has bothered to read the fine print of the Proposal they'd know that there is a corollary that allocates funding for the Lockheed F-22 Production Line to be maintained through 2011, at which time a new DoD review can decide to resume production or not.Just had to put that out before anyone posting something else that was erroneous.
Where to begin....:
OxymoronOk so what we will give up Air superiority to the Chinese and Russians? Dumb short sighted bastards.
Our edge above the Chinese and Russians is enough for us to hold onto regardless of the F-22 being capped at it's present numbers.
187 F-22s alone is more than even most developed countries are able to field in terms of frontline fighters. Let's just check shall we?
Russia: 10 Su-30, 10 Su-34s, 10 MiG-35, 100 MiG-29 with non-fatigued and modernized frames (the rest mostly retired or in reserve), 256 MiG-31, 12 Su-35BM.
China: 130 Shenyang J-11, 160 Chengdu J-10, 100 Su-30MK2 and MKK.
India: 116 Su-30MKIs are active in the IAF, and 56 baseline 4th gens, the Mig-29s.
W01fCuts have to be made. No power has ever maintained its military supremacy during an economic collapse, and America will be no exception.
Though that's still 187 more 5th generation fighters than the Chinese or Russians have, and it's not like they couldn't start up production again in the future if there was a need to.
Something I can agree to.
Igor AutunovicThose 187 fighters at $140 million a pop without including support and maintenance costs are somewhere around $26 billion. Damn straight this program should be crushed, killed then destroyed just to make sure. The development program alone has cost 65 billion.
Although the europeans aren't doing much better with the eurofighter typhoon, at $100 million each.
For the price of one 5th generation F-22 I could purchase fourteen 4th generation mig-29's or ten of them for the price of a single eurofighter.
Considering that a single F-22 could engage and destroy as many of those fighters as it carried missiles i'd say it more than lives up to its unit cost.
The only reason the F-22 costs so much to begin with is because the original production order was cut back.
FalxYeah, because a plane like that is exactly what is needed for the current world situation.
Congratulations for committed the infamous Second-Class Battleship Fallacy.
The necessity for the F-22
isn't about today's current world situation. Its about tomorrow's.
OxymoronListen I dont want to derail the thread, so I am not going to respond in kind.
In any case if things have to be cut for the common good lets start with Medicad, Welfare, and other similar programs. Our security is more important then, comfort and luxury. The Chinese are spending like nuts, upgrading developing, buying and we are decreasing our spending. We will be faced with a China who has waited for its time and will strike severly at US interest across the world. To preserve Peace prepare for war.
Oxy don't blow a fuse man.
I'm actually quite satisfied with this, and to be honest it's not so much of a budget cut so much as a re-prioritization of interests for this year. Certain programs are being scaled back, but the only real major thing being really cut is that
god awful FCS program. Which i'm happy as hell the Pentagon has finally given up on.
You realize we're still on track to acquire
thousands of F-35s in 4 years right?
Which are also 5th Gen fighters, and just as deadly at blowing the aircraft of potential adversaries out of the sky right?
NY Yankees suck.I've actually got a finance question about this... why did Lockheed's stock jump today? Is there some news I'm missing or what? This seems like it would be bad news for them, but their stock was up 9%.
Because their investors were actually expecting this budget proposal to be alot worse. The fact that the LMASC facility outside Atlanta is being kept open means the company will still be pulling a profit from the F-22 line for at least the next two years.
The F-35 line being kept on schedule was of a much lesser concern.
"For you, the day when I destroyed your village, killed your family and forced you into exile was the defining moment of your life, but for me...it was Tuesday."