[Le Rouge]

Britain's government needs to stay on its own island.

[Tailz]

Britain's government needs to stay on its own island.

Does that also apply to Argentina? And to the folks on the Falkland Islands? That each should stay in their own areas?

[Thunderhawk]

What about the various other islands that are part of the UK?
Like the Scottish islands, channel islands, Manx (with its different status)..

Has the british withdrawl from Cyprus been a good good thing?

[The Immortal Goon]

Does that also apply to Argentina? And to the folks on the Falkland Islands? That each should stay in their own areas?

Not that this is the best argument or anything, but it's funny that the same people that for centuries insisted that they had to completely disregard the vast majority of an alien island-country's wishes and run it as a means to stop potential foreign influence are hell bent on the idea that Argentina is ridiculous for disregarding the population of one of their own (geographically speaking) islands as a means to stop establish and continued foreign influence.

[Potemkin]

Do the words 'perfidious' and 'Albion' mean anything to you, Goon?

[Cartertonian]

I recall that Spike Milligan's counter to Perfidious Albion was Vitreous China!

[Celtic Communism]

Britain as good as laid Argentina into a trap with the Falklands - the Colonial Office encouraged Argentina to reclaim the Falklands as a part of Britain's decolonialisation policy, and the Argentinians fell right into it. Britain had the right to stop Argentina from taking the Falklands solely because the Islanders are British and deserve protection, however since the traitors in the Colonial Office did not get a bullet to the back of the head for their encouragment of Argentina's action, I don't think Britain actually deserves to take hold of the Islands any longer. Nearly the exact same thing happened with Iraq and the Kuwait in the First Gulf War.

[Invictus_88]

You're bloody odd, Celtic. Every time you post something, I wonder to what extent you're doing it to be provocative or to challenge our perspective.

As for the matter at hand; if the Falklands were invaded, and it looked as if we'd have to fight to get them back, I'd cut short my studies and join the army that same week. At the very least, I'd fully back the task force until I get to the end of my studies and join the army as planned.

[Suska]

British holdings in the south seem to be more extensive than just the Falklands according to this map didn't know there were even islands there...

[Moderatepartypower]

Suska, thats because there is more than one group of islands we own down there. Falklands being the largest, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands also being south of the area. That's why there is a large zone round the Falklands islands.

[Suska]

I've researched South Georgia and the other Antarctic islands before, I knew about those, I never noticed Ascension, St Helena and Tristan da Cunha... damn that's a lot of ocean to own just for planting a flag on a rock poking out of the middle of the ocean...

[Tailz]

Not that this is the best argument or anything, but it's funny that the same people that for centuries insisted that they had to completely disregard the vast majority of an alien island-country's wishes and run it as a means to stop potential foreign influence are hell bent on the idea that Argentina is ridiculous for disregarding the population of one of their own (geographically speaking) islands as a means to stop establish and continued foreign influence.

What same people? I don’t know about you Goon, but I’ve only been here for the last 35 years or so, not the last few centuries – so I am not quite certain who your writing about in relation to people who have been around for centuries insisting on disregarding alien island-countrues wishes. Are you really proposing that people can’t change their mind when they look back on what the previous few generations have done?

Anyway, since we are concerning ourselves in this discussion with the Falkland Islands - last time I checked the history of the Islands, there was no island-country population for whom to have their rights violated by the various colonial powers of the day – there were certainly no Argentineans living on the island when it was discovered by the Dutch, and it is doubtful many, if any, Argentineans knew of the Islands in 1500’s. Today’s Argentine movement to control the islands is based in nationalist pride, not any form of historic link to an Island population or settlement.

The only people who may have known of it are the Yaghan (indigenous inhabitants of the islands south of Isla Grande de Tierra del Fuego), who were nomadic island hoppers who may have at some point in time visited the islands – but even they didn’t settle on the islands.

The only claim Argentina has to the islands, is purely geographical, that they are nearby.

[Brio]

I never noticed Ascension, St Helena and Tristan da Cunha... damn that's a lot of ocean to own just for planting a flag on a rock poking out of the middle of the ocean...

They also come in handy when you need to exile troublesome French generals.

[The Immortal Goon]

Like I said, it's not the best argument or anything. It's just funny that the jingoist will quickly turn everything around so the principles equal the outcome they wanted it to come out to.

Ireland - an island off the coast of Britain - was always said to be held, in part, because the security of Great Britain was dependent upon it.

On principle, nobody really supports that any more, largely because British security isn't dependent upon it.

Of course, when switched around, Argentina is expected to joyfully expect to put up with an alien and potentially hostile neighbor right off of its coast.

I'm not really commenting politically as I honestly don't know about the ins and outs to go in to great detail about it, but it is funny that big powers see no hypocrisy in changing moral stands around in order to suit them.

If it would make you feel better to have an American example, siding with China after the Sino-Soviet split is a good example. Or siding with Pakistan against the world's largest liberal democracy. And so on and so forth.

[Potemkin]

I'm not really commenting politically as I honestly don't know about the ins and outs to go in to great detail about it, but it is funny that big powers see no hypocrisy in changing moral stands around in order to suit them.

It's called 'master morality'. The strong do what they can; the weak do what they must. Ask Dave about it.

[Tailz]

Like I said, it's not the best argument or anything. It's just funny that the jingoist will quickly turn everything around so the principles equal the outcome they wanted it to come out to.

People can't change their minds over generations? Come on Goon! We are not monolithic entities who have lasted for eons.

Ireland - an island off the coast of Britain - was always said to be held, in part, because the security of Great Britain was dependent upon it.

Ireland, Scotland, and England have a very long history of each raiding and invading the other.

Generaly Argentina didn't know the Islands were there, and didn't setup a settlement or attempt to exploit any resources of the islands. Not a good comparison to the close relationship Ireland and England have had for hundreds of years.

On principle, nobody really supports that any more, largely because British security isn't dependent upon it.

Considering there were Irish raiding parties, and some Irish groups offering help to some attempts by forign powers to win the English Crown - I can understand the principle back in those days of the English kings attacking those who were seeking to support and facilitate their enemies (not that I think the subjuation of the Irish is a good thing ether). But we are not back in those days today. And great strides have been made between the English and the Irish to create peace between them. A peace that is today being threatened by Irish radicals intent on disrupting the progress that has been made.

In difference, there was no previous population of the Falkland Islands that threatnened Argentina - heck only a few people in canoes ever visited the Islands prior European discovery!

Of course, when switched around, Argentina is expected to joyfully expect to put up with an alien and potentially hostile neighbor right off of its coast.

Hostile neighbor? The last hostilities in the region towards Argentina before the Falklands war of 1982 was the Second World War in 1940's. Argentina had been the source of beligerance towards the Falklands since the 1960's since the Junta started to use the nationalist cause of gaining control of the islands to distract the Argentine population from their own Military rule of Argentina.

I'm not really commenting politically as I honestly don't know about the ins and outs to go in to great detail about it, but it is funny that big powers see no hypocrisy in changing moral stands around in order to suit them.

What hypocrisy? It was Argentina that invaded the Islands.

And besides, I support the Falkland Islands gaining independance from both Britian and Argentina.

If it would make you feel better to have an American example, siding with China after the Sino-Soviet split is a good example. Or siding with Pakistan against the world's largest liberal democracy. And so on and so forth.

What? And how do those compair to Argentina trying to take over a bunch of Islands that Argentina never had a settlement on, does not have a population of Argentinians, or that Argentina itself invaded by force!

[The Immortal Goon]

Bah, my point is that the imperialist changes his morals based on whatever is convenient. I deliberately said it wasn't the best argument in relation to that specific instance because it isn't.

[Potemkin]

Bah, my point is that the imperialist changes his morals based on whatever is convenient.

And I told you that it is merely the master morality at work - whatever is good for me is absolutely good.

[a777pilot]

The UK did nothing to save their territory of Hong Kong so why all this false chest thumbing about the Falklands. OH, there's right...Argitina is not China.

p.s., ....and for all of you that are going to say the "lease was up" in reference to HK, need to study your history just a bit closer.

[R_G]

Other, inave and conquer the country that invaded the islands.

Probably Argentina.