[oppose_obama]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19905905

Your peace loving Islamists are buying child soldiers. To die and kill other child soldiers. Nothing barbaric or savage about that! But hey, at least they are imposing sharia law, because that will solve all their problems. Islam is a cancer on human society, the tumor should be dealt with.


Here's a lovely snip from the article.
"Women's rights were being particularly restricted, said Mr Simonovic, the UN Assistant Secretary-General for Human Rights, citing the compilation of a "frightening" list of unmarried women who were pregnant or had borne children."

Boy those Islamists really don't like vaginas eh!

[Jihsan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19905905

Your peace loving Islamists are buying child soldiers. To die and kill other child soldiers. Nothing barbaric or savage about that! But hey, at least they are imposing sharia law, because that will solve all their problems. Islam is a cancer on human society, the tumor should be dealt with.


Here's a lovely snip from the article.
"Women's rights were being particularly restricted, said Mr Simonovic, the UN Assistant Secretary-General for Human Rights, citing the compilation of a "frightening" list of unmarried women who were pregnant or had borne children."

Boy those Islamists really don't like vaginas eh!

Okay, you win the debate. I will grant you the right to kill all the Muslims. You've just proved that we're ALL truly evil.
Would you like to start with me? want to swap contact details and arrange meeting place? Also, I would also appreciate it if you would let me know which weapons you'll be using to terminate me? Just so that i can try to prepare mentally and block the pain in advance. Please make it fast and quick. Thanks buddy!

Why the F*** can't you stay on topic?

[layman]

Yeah America should bomb these kids to free them from the islamists!

Do you really care OO? From your previous post its clear you couldnt give two shits about other peoples suffering, especially foriegners.

so why the fake outrage?

Child soldiers are very popular all over Africa btw. The whole place is a giant shithole with or without Islam.

[Far-Right Sage]

Well, the Mali situation directly correlates to the Libya situation, in the sense of the unprecedented campaign of terrorism against that country which occurred last year.

Any Westerner who supported it can truly have no intelligent speech on the Malian debacle.

[Goldberk]

FRS is right in a way, one conflict knocks into another, radicalized, battle hardened soldiers have come across the border into Mali. The people I really feel sorry for are the non-Islamist ethnic Tuareg rebels, their conflict has been hijacked by the islamists and now they potentially face two enemies.

[Decky]

The whole place is a giant shithole with or without Islam.

Basically this, people are only blaming Islam as they are the new enemies of the west to replace the Soviets. After all we need to keep people terrified.

[layman]

Meh, well if thats the case they picked a pretty pathetic enemy compared to the USSR.

Islamists are all moronic and can barely put a home made bomb together.

[Quantum]

Child soldiers are very popular all over Africa btw. The whole place is a giant shithole with or without Islam.

I remember some commentators saying that South Sudan would become prosperous when they seceded from Sudan but to nobody's surprise, the country is a failed state and shows no signs of economic convergence with other developing countries, let alone developed countries.

[layman]

To be fair it does have a civil war and hasnt had much time yet.

Not that time is likely to improve matters much. Then again, large ammounts of oil per head can bring some material success to places that would otherwise stand no hope.

[Far-Right Sage]

Hence why I denounced the foolish partition of Sudan to begin with, Quantum. It was bound to solve exactly nothing and as you stated, it surprised no one but the most gullible and geopolitically naive in that regard.

[Decky]

Meh, well if thats the case they picked a pretty pathetic enemy compared to the USSR.

Islamists are all moronic and can barely put a home made bomb together.

Oh I totally agree but the way the government and the Media portray a few goat herding malcontents hugely exaggerates the danger they pose. Don't you agree?

[layman]

Of course I do.

The level of threat almost statistically irrelevant. I wouldnt be suprised if the west get it in the back from somewhere while investing so much against so little.

Would serve us right for our irrationality.

Dont get me wrong though. I have a low opinion of most of these places, their culture and their religion.

[Far-Right Sage]

Actually, Layman, although I am a vocal critic of the direction U.S., and by extension Western foreign policy has taken particularly regarding the Middle East for several generations now, irrationality doesn't factor into it. It's irrational if one evaluates their endeavors on the basis of hindering rather than helping the long-term interests of the United States, Britain, France, etc. - but then one remembers that those ruling these states who are entirely beholden to multinational interests, the same people who allowed your people to become a minority in their own capital city, have anything but the national interest at heart. Their collective goal is the slow bleeding death of the nation-state, and if it doesn't matter in the long run if that nation is Mali or France.

[layman]

Not sure I follow 100%.

Putting so much resources into combating the Islamist threat is irrational for any of the nation states involved.

The only capitalists who seem to make good money from this are arms manufacturers perhaps. Oil companys too perhaps but western ones didnt do so well in Iraq. Maybe they will have more luck in Libya?

In the longer term I suppose imposing western syle capitalism and globalism onto the middle east will open up new markets to them. Radical islam is also a problem when importing cheap lebour into the west. It is not in the capitalists interest for people in the west to fear/hate muslims as this is a key area for importing labour (north africa especially is a good source of cheap labour).

The ideal for them I suppose to to basically moderate the middle east so they "can do business with it".

Smething like this?

[Far-Right Sage]

In a sense.

Globalism is of course a factor. Speaking as one of the most prominent figures in the Benghazi-based National Transitional Council, Mustafa Abdul Jalil stated that what was occurring in Libya (the alleged "uprising" and the NATO campaign of unrestrained terrorism which followed) was a "natural part of the globalization process". As you see, sometimes even the best deceivers of men amongst them drop their masks in ultimate moments of self-revealing arrogance. They believe virtually no one will grasp the implications of a statement such as that, for example, and indeed for the overwhelming majority who even heard it, is is nothing more than so much political conjecture.

There is a reason the Syrian Arab Army is currently heroically resisting essentially the proxy army of the most pervasive forces of globalism around today - They understand the alternative to be servitude to outside powers for an indeterminate period of time and the financial puppetization of their state, which is effectively the threshold of the abyss. They understand that after Libya gained "freedom", Islamists now prowl the streets in Tripoli and blow up Sufi mosques in broad daylight, U.S. drones buzz above the airspace of their country with impunity, actual patriotic people are tied up in chains and forced to eat the former national flag while their daughters are raped and brutalized, and entire resistant towns are bombarded with heavy artillery and chemical weapons while the elite-collaborationist class organizes conferences in London to promote Western tourism to the Libyan Mediterranean coast.

This is the actual face of liberalism, Layman, and yes, it is vile and horrendous. In the United Kingdom where it has been cemented for two centuries plus it takes the form of having cretins such as William Hague and a national government that allows your own people to become a minority; a government that promotes the prosecution of women who state racist remarks on trains and have their children seized, but allows Pakistani rape gangs a slap on the wrist and foreign women who beat up an English girl and put her in the hospital in a clear case of attempted murder walk scot free as they "were not used to drinking alcohol in the Islamic culture".

In nations that become modern victims of neocolonialism and the system Britain is already firmly entrenched in, such as Libya, it takes the form of militias who ethnically cleanse an entire town writing on the walls "the brigade for purging slaves and black skin", who tie national soldiers upside down and beat their heads before beheading them with a sword, and who cut out the hearts of captives and trample them (as happened in Misrata). All the while the government resisting this terrorist scourge is blasted via international media which is monopolized by Western interests as "killing its own people".

I'd encourage a free-thinking young person such as yourself, Layman, to not become equally fooled over Syria, as I assure you the same level of terrorist atrocities on an outrageous scale is occurring. Syria is one of the last states, next to Iran and North Korea, I believe, that has not instituted a central bank that is directly controlled by Western finance and advised by the International Monetary Fund. Libya was also such a state. What was one of the first orders of business of the helpless "rebels" on the third or fourth day of their "revolution", before even controlling one town or city in its entirety? Declaring a new central bank and a new "Libyan National Oil Company". You do the math.

[youtube]OtGYTb41TZg[/youtube]

[Quantum]

Hence why I denounced the foolish partition of Sudan to begin with, Quantum. It was bound to solve exactly nothing and as you stated, it surprised no one but the most gullible and geopolitically naive in that regard.

Only an idiot would believe that a bunch of rag-tag rebels wouldn't do anything but run the country to the ground and then ask for aid. Unfortunately, this process has been repeated many times throughout the continent and will do so indefinitely, no matter how many Live Aid concerts are made.

[Rei Murasame]

Indeed. They must have been aware in fact that South Sudan would contain oil and very illiterate people. It was basically a failed state before it even became a state.

[Quantum]

Indeed. They must have been aware in fact that South Sudan would contain oil and very illiterate people. It was basically a failed state before it even became a state.

If commentators are questioning whether South Africa will succeed or not, then South Sudan live up to its high expectations. It seems that Western foreign policy is failing (or succeeding) depending on what you believe the motives are for toppling or dividing countries.

[rmadison]

Too bad for all of the anti-Westerners in this thread, they actually want an intervention:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/29/opini ... te.html?hp

"Jihadist criminal groups like Ansar Dine and the Movement for Unity and Jihad in West Africa, working with drug traffickers and armed separatists, are threatening democratic institutions, national unity and secularism in Mali."

.......................

But then we have posters laughably describing mass murderers like assad as "heroic," and whining about the deposition of other mass murderers like khadafi, so then it is understandable how people legitimately wanting to help and get involved may be hesitant to do so.

Must suck to be in a 3rd-world shithole right now knowing that there are so many lackeys and idiots in the West - strangely sounding like ron paul, pretending to actually have something intelligent to add to the conversation but railing against humanitarian interventions. These people stand in the corner and scream: "it is not our fight / less foreign entanglements" or "it's for oil / big business" or some other ludicrous nonsense, which, to the ignorant, actually sounds like useful opinion - but it is not; it is meaningless garbage.

[Far-Right Sage]

Too bad for all of the anti-Westerners in this thread, they actually want an intervention:

Can the nonsense. Who out of those who have posted here is "anti-Western"? For opposing the creation of useless and unnecessary entities predetermined to be failed states such as South Sudan?

Also, I have not heard one member make the argument that a substantial amount of Malian citizens would be content with allowing Islamists to seize and dominate half their country, destroy historic sites, impose theocratic law, and run amok.

The point is that the debacle in Mali is a direct result of the deposition, through internationally-coordinated state terrorism on a large scale, of the popular leader Muammar Qaddafi in Libya, and those of us who opposed that worthlessly destructive operation saw grave trouble brewing for North and West Africa almost two years ago now. The destruction of one of the few remaining sovereign states on the continent has led to more bloodshed and chaos, not less, and unfortunately for many, this has not been contained within Libya, nor will it be contained to Mali.