[Decky]

The last time Britain stood alone it didn't do too badly did it?

[Beren]

You didn't stand alone, actually. The Special Relationship seems to be over.

[Decky]

You didn't stand alone, actually. The Special Relationship seems to be over.

I'm not talking about the war in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain

[Beren]

What are you talking about then? You would have lost the war in general without American assistance, no matter how heroic pilots you happened to have.

[Decky]

What are you talking about then? You would have lost the war in general without American assistance, no matter how heroic pilots you happened to have.

The Yanks were irrelevant (just like in the First World War).

What are you talking about then? You would have been fought to a stalemate in general without Soviet assistance, no matter how heroic pilots you happened to have.

Fixed for you.

[Igor Antunov]

The entire western front and north africa campaign were irrelevant in ww2 europe, but in the context of it the yanks were the primary opponent to Germany in the west, after France got overrun.

And britain, oh boy britain, after germany 'lost' the battle of britain, germany immediately embarked on the greatest invasion in human history, expending way more aircraft it had used on britain-and this was primarily a land adventure!

And yes this belongs in the history forum, which nobody visits. Sorry Kaiser.

[Decky]

but in the context of it the yanks were the primary opponent to Germany in the west, after France got overrun.

Well that's a might fine trick by the Yanks.

French surrender: 25th June 1940.

Americans enter the war: December 7th 1941.

Those talented Yanks, with what did they make such a huge impact while at peace with Germany? Rude language?

[Igor Antunov]

Yeah but until the US came axis holdings in western europe were under no threat, meanwhile there was talk of eventual invasion of the british isles. Sorry but britain played an even smaller roal in ww2 than russia did in ww1, at least russia knocked austria-hungary out of the equation before it fel to internal revolution. Britain played support in a secondary campaign, from start to end.

[Decky]

Britain played support in a secondary campaign, from start to end.

Apart from the part where it (and its empire and bitch countries) was the only thing still fighting because no one else had bothered to turn up (and continued to refuse until the axis actually attacked them).

[Beren]

Well, it's not really new, but still an illusion.

"Look at me standing alone with my big brother right behind my back!"

[fuser]

What are you talking about then? You would have lost the war in general without American assistance, no matter how heroic pilots you happened to have.

By any definition of"lost", British Empire was not going to loose in any conceivable way, Germany simply didn't had the means to attack UK, once they tried and failed miserably.

Whereas British Commonwealth can afford to fight on periphery and defeat axis there. May be not a complete defeat but the continued blockade, no foreign reserve and loosing battles would had forced Germany to come on negotiation table and go back to pre war borders in west at least. Nazi Germany would had survived but that's it.

[roxunreal]

The last time Britain stood alone it didn't do too badly did it?

I don't have much doubt that had Germany not warred with Russia and providing that the US didn't intervene, the "standing alone" Britain would have fallen sooner or later. It would have fallen even during the BoB had Hitler not been an incompetent fool.

And if you want to post mighty Britain images, post pictures of some better and in the grand scheme of things more significant aircraft than the Boulton Paul Defiant.

[fuser]

the "standing alone" Britain would have fallen sooner or later. It would have fallen even during the BoB had Hitler not been an incompetent fool.

Hitler being fool is just a myth (the whole he should have bombed airfields, factories and not civilian targets is a myth), Germany had a very very tiny chance of winning BoB. UK had taken a lead in aircraft production too in 40s only, so there's that too.

Let alone the fact that success of BoB is not a guarantee for success of landing an invasion on the isles. Britain falling because of German onslaught, impossible. Germany coming to negotiation tables because of continued blockade and defeats in periphery, losing all her gains at least in western Europe, a healthy possibility.

[Igor Antunov]

Nazi germany would have been destroyed either way. At the very least the US managed to gobble up France, Italy and the rest of western europe before the soviets did. Britain was not capable of this.

[Americanroyalty]

Hitler being fool is just a myth (the whole he should have bombed airfields, factories and not civilian targets is a myth), Germany had a very very tiny chance of winning BoB. UK had taken a lead in aircraft production too in 40s only, so there's that too.

Hitler definitely was a foolish military commander as he could have crushed the british at Dunkirk if he hadn't stopped his Tanks. Later against the soviets Hitler also showed how incompetent he was as a military commander.

Let alone the fact that success of BoB is not a guarantee for success of landing an invasion on the isles. Britain falling because of German onslaught, impossible. Germany coming to negotiation tables because of continued blockade and defeats in periphery, losing all her gains at least in western Europe, a healthy possibility.

The british hardly had a great track record versus the Fascists as they were getting crushed by the Japanese in south east asia. And the defeats in North Africa weren't severe enough to bring Germany to the negotiating table.

The Yanks were irrelevant (just like in the First World War).

Yes totally besides fighting/defeating all three Axis powers at the same time, providing the industrial manpower that allowed the allies to gain an upper hand, and developing the Atomic bomb which allowed the allies to basically insta-kill any city or army the wanted to.

[Decky]

I don't have much doubt that had Germany not warred with Russia and providing that the US didn't intervene, the "standing alone" Britain would have fallen sooner or later.

How? By magicking a non shit navy out of thin air (and while they were building this Britain obviously wouldn't be building any more ships)?

As I said, with the Yanks absent (I mean more absent) it would be a stalemate until the Soviets turned up and won the war (pretty much the same as what happen historically).

[AuContraireVoltaire]

What are you talking about then? You would have lost the war in general without American assistance, no matter how heroic pilots you happened to have.

Without British victory in the Battle of Britain, America's involvement would have been inconsequential.
The Germans needed air superiority for an amphibious invasion of Britain. The triumph of the RAF kept the Germans at bay.
And if we owe anyone for our deliverance it's the Russians, not the Americans.

[AuContraireVoltaire]

Yeah but until the US came axis holdings in western europe were under no threat, meanwhile there was talk of eventual invasion of the british isles. Sorry but britain played an even smaller roal in ww2 than russia did in ww1, at least russia knocked austria-hungary out of the equation before it fel to internal revolution. Britain played support in a secondary campaign, from start to end.

When asked but their Russian captors what the turning point in the war was, German generals answered: "the Battle of Britain"
whether this was said to irk the Soviets or whether it was a genuine appraisal is up to you, but it demonstrates how important that event was.

[JohnRawls]

If there was no soviet union and america in WW2 the nazi fleet of 700 u-boats alone would have been enough to surround great britain and starve you to death without even mounting any invasion in couple of years. Not to mention that the nazis developed jet power planes faster than anybody. If mass produced you would have lost the 2nd battle of britain fore sure. Your standing army on the isles was also tiny compared what the germans could throw at you. There is no single chance you could have won the war or did anywhere near good in WW2.

[fuser]

Hitler definitely was a foolish military commander as he could have crushed the british at Dunkirk if he hadn't stopped his Tanks.

False. This is just a myth created by Hitler's general in post war period and after all who was going to defend "Hitler", hence put all blame on him. At dunkirk the halt order was given by "Von Rundesdt" not Hitler and it was given because of solid military reason. The allies forces trapped in the pocket still had much firepower while German Armor formations were lacking supplies and maintenance and had to wait.

The british hardly had a great track record versus the Fascists as they were getting crushed by the Japanese in south east asia. And the defeats in North Africa weren't severe enough to bring Germany to the negotiating table

El Alamein happened before Americans, then Britain can leave her east asian possessions and still win. Japan failed to make any breakthrough in India and was repulsed by Britsh forces but let's not talk about Japan here.

If there was no soviet union and america in WW2 the nazi fleet of 700 u-boats alone would have been enough to surround great britain and starve you to death without even mounting any invasion in couple of years

And from where will they get 700 u-boats at one time? But then this is a myth too. In all the war period, there were only two months when Britain produced less merchant ships than it were destroyed by u-boats, go figure.

Not to mention that the nazis developed jet power planes faster than anybody. If mass produced you would have lost the 2nd battle of britain fore sure.

Fanboys. Every major country had developed jet planes but they were smart enough unlike Nazis to discard them during war period as they couldn't be produced in mass numbers required for war and as the result of aerial war showed us, it was a great decision.

Your standing army on the isles was also tiny compared what the germans could throw at you

And what Germans could throw a couple of airborne divisions. or they are literally supermen who don't need military supplies and food etc.The situation in 1940 dictated that even if not one single merchant ships of Germany gets sunk by Royal Navy, (an impossibility), the KM could had only supported 2-3 full strength divisions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion#Logistics

The most important part of warfare which is the most ignored part as well.