- 28 Dec 2015 09:58
#14636385
Building socialism is good! If nothing else, Lenin wanted to help ease the transition into socialism later when the USSR has helped to aid the revolutions in the East, if nothing else, by altering, "the basic relations between the basic classes of all the countries," including those that :
But at no point does he arbitrarily redefine socialism!
No he doesn't! And the out-of-context quotes you provided hardly say otherwise!
From the same work you cited:
Again, he specifically denies that an arbitrary measure of state control is socialism:
And what exactly is your argument here?
That socialism is, "an arbitrary measure of state control?"
Alis Volat Propriis; Tiocfaidh ár lá; Proletarier Aller Länder, Vereinigt Euch!
Ingliz wrote:Why would Lenin specifically call for a state apparatus worthy to be called socialist, if he thought building a socialist state was a pipe dream?
Building socialism is good! If nothing else, Lenin wanted to help ease the transition into socialism later when the USSR has helped to aid the revolutions in the East, if nothing else, by altering, "the basic relations between the basic classes of all the countries," including those that :
Lenin wrote:But what if the situation, which drew Russia into the imperialist world war that involved every more or less influential West European country and made her a witness of the eve of the revolutions maturing or partly already begun in the East, gave rise to circumstances that put Russia and her development in a position which enabled us to achieve precisely that combination of a "peasant war" with the working-class movement suggested in 1856 by no less a Marxist than Marx himself as a possible prospect for Prussia?
What if the complete hopelessness of the situation, by stimulating the efforts of the workers and peasants tenfold, offered us the opportunity to create the fundamental requisites of civilization in a different way from that of the West European countries? Has that altered the general line of development of world history? Has that altered the basic relations between the basic classes of all the countries that are being, or have been, drawn into the general course of world history?
If a definite level of culture is required for the building of socialism (although nobody can say just what that definite "level of culture" is, for it differs in every Western European country), why cannot we began by first achieving the prerequisites for that definite level of culture in a revolutionary way, and then, with the aid of the workers' and peasants' government and Soviet system, proceed to overtake the other nations?
...You say that civilization is necessary for the building of socialism. Very good. But why could we not first create such prerequisites of civilization in our country by the expulsion of the landowners and the Russian capitalists, and then start moving toward socialism?
But at no point does he arbitrarily redefine socialism!
Ingliz wrote:Engels thought so.
No he doesn't! And the out-of-context quotes you provided hardly say otherwise!
From the same work you cited:
Engels wrote:Will it be possible for this revolution to take place in one country alone?
No. By creating the world market, big industry has already brought all the peoples of the Earth, and especially the civilized peoples, into such close relation with one another that none is independent of what happens to the others.
Again, he specifically denies that an arbitrary measure of state control is socialism:
Engels wrote:But of late, since Bismarck went in for State-ownership of industrial establishments, a kind of spurious Socialism has arisen, degenerating, now and again, into something of flunkyism, that without more ado declares all State-ownership, even of the Bismarkian sort, to be socialistic. Certainly, if the taking over by the State of the tobacco industry is socialistic, then Napoleon and Metternich must be numbered among the founders of Socialism.
And what exactly is your argument here?
That socialism is, "an arbitrary measure of state control?"
Alis Volat Propriis; Tiocfaidh ár lá; Proletarier Aller Länder, Vereinigt Euch!